 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: william ainsworth
Date: 2003-02-14 14:51
I have played in a community band for several years through changes of conductor and executive. I play third clarinet because I am not a good enough player to occupy any other seat. I don't of course know what it is like in other countries or areas but it is really a problem in my limited experience in London, Canada at least, to fill the third clarinet chairs. It would be helpful to me to have a better player beside me but that is seldom the case. I did get a bit of a clue to the problem when I took an "Horizon" course where we were all relatively inexperienced. I was surprised to find the students anxious to grab the first parts. The teacher opined that it was because those parts got most of the melody. Have you got any comments about this?
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Author: Ken Kingsnorth
Date: 2003-02-14 15:22
I know exactly what you are feeling. I play in a volunteer orchestra and play second part. but there are some really fine players that show up from time to time and they really make me feel so inadequate. I don't play all that well to even think about the first part. But, I do enjoy playing very much. I have even gone so far as to consider quitting all together or just taking some time off to maybe get some learning under my belt and then get back to it when I can feel a little more comfortable. I know what the answer would be if I even suggested to the conductor that I was quitting. he would say that i'm doing alright and that there are a lot of players in the group that are far worse than I am. That may be true but it doesn't make me feel any more adequate. Just a little of my background. I played for four years in high school and about a year in a pick up marching band when I first went into the U.S. Navy. Then I layed it down and didn't even consider picking it up again until about 6 years ago. I guess one of my problems is the creeping up age wise. I am now 77 and just about 78 and I know that is affecting my abilities somewhat. Getting into the computerization of music is what has stimulated me to get going again after all those years.
Thanks for listening and hope to hear from you sometime
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Author: Diane
Date: 2003-02-14 15:38
As a section leader in an American community band, I agree there is a very strong bias towards "first is best", but from a musical standpoint, you really do need strong players on each part in order to balance the section. Very often, the third clarinets are 1) playing a counter-melody and/or 2) playng the tonic for the chord that is going on; both important to the music.
In our section, I rotate the players for each concert, so everyone plays first, second and third at some point in the year. I make sure that I have a strong player on each part (actually the top three players rotate the most into the third section, because we need them there). I also "stagger" the section so we have more third clarinets than seconds and more seconds than firsts. Even with the stagger, I still have difficulty convincing the people playing first that they do NOT need to play as loud as they are, while the seconds and thirds need to play out more.
Personally, I like to play third clarinet in some groups - when was the last time you heard the conductor say "third clarinets, that's really much too loud! Cut back!" :-) An interesting observation - the people who are the best clarinetists in our group are also the most willing to play third and volunteer to sit third.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-02-14 18:49
The idea that first is always best is a fallacy as far as that pertains to musical groups. I do not presently play in a community band but I have a good bit of experience behind me. I've played in many bands, a couple of orchestras (all 'chairs' at some time or other), and several small to medium size combos. I feel, as Diane does, that every position is important so... strong players are needed on every part. Fortunate is the band with a section leader like Diane who gives everyone a chance to participate to the fullest and try to bring out the best in all. If you're in such a band, be very nice to 'Diane'... there are far too few of her.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-02-14 19:05
I prefer third clarinet, we are furthest from the audience.
It's pretty rare that anyone in our row catches a cabbage.
We're also the first out of the rehersal room on breaks.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-02-14 20:11
Ken wrote: "I am now 77 and just about 78 and I know that is affecting my abilities somewhat."
Thought it might be interesting to note that Stanley Drucker, legendary Principal clarinetist of the New York Philharmonic Orchestra, is now 76 yrs young and, reportably, has no intentions of retiring. According to Mr. Armato (Reed Wizard and former clarinetist with the NYC Met Opera), Stanley said, "I'm having too much fun to retire."
Stop using your age as an excuse, continue to "rage aginast that good night" and resolve to play your clarinet just a little bit better every time you practice or perform. Attiude is everything--enjoy and good clarineting!!!!
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-02-15 01:38
Hey Ken, "I am now 77 and just about 78 and I know that is affecting my abilities somewhat." Bless the Lord for the limiting word "SOMEWHAT" I am also 77, approaching 90 according to my arthritis on certain days-ha,ha, false upper's forcing double-lip,dual hearing aids and and my gift to you is:
"Ne Cede Malis." [Do Not Yield to Misfortunes]
Bob A
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-02-15 01:42
Ken, maybe a better modern translation would be, "Don't Sweat The Small Stuff." Enjoy, and press on. Some day 1st chair?
Bob A
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Author: Ken
Date: 2003-02-15 04:00
Ken, setting a worthy short term goal might be what the doctor ordered. For a musical kick in the pants have you considered asking your principal player/conductor to assign you a 1st part (or featured solo) of a piece within your abilities you could perform with the orchestra? No need to rush, you could do a piece the conductor is programming for future concerts (or suggest one yourself) to allow plenty of prep time. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself; doing the math you were off the horn up to 50 years ... that's a lot of years, the best clarinetists in the world would have to re-invent themselves after all that time. I've been playing full-time for 25 years and can't be off the horn more than 3 days without losing my edge, decades would be unthinkable. One question to ask yourself after being back 6 years, how much "better" do you feel you are from where you originally left off? You probably improved markedly and not completely aware of it. An issue like this is a prime reason musicians (like a diary) should habitually record themselves to monitor progress. "Fun first" always. v/r Ken
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Author: Jim Mougey
Date: 2003-02-15 13:31
I played 3rd in a "concert band" and met some of the niceest and well versed people. One story: Conductor stopped the band and complained about 3rd part intonation. Band laughed, 3rds looked down for here came our leader with his little black "ear". Stopped at the 1st clarients and they were flat, 2nds, flatter, and those lousy thirds stopped the dial on the but. Ypper, the 5 of us killed the section. Conductor: "I knew it was the 3rds. You'll have to play flatter." Band didn't laugh. 3rds did. Three quit!
Jim(M)
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Author: Bob
Date: 2003-02-15 14:37
Hooray for the "tirds" and remember, "Non Illegitimus Carborundum"
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Author: Eugene
Date: 2003-02-15 18:02
Our concertband once or twice a year changes chairs in the clarinets so every body gets more experience especially with four strong players on first going into help the other chairs it helps elevate the hole,by the way our band is going to the World police and fire games this summer"The Cappy Smart Band" from Calgary
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Author: Jean
Date: 2003-02-16 03:26
Call me crazy, but I love third clarinet. I play principal most of the time but will gladly jump into the third section. Second is another story, however. Don't like it, never will. Too much crossing the break I guess. That and playing the first part a third lower can be boring. The thirds get to play in what I think is the most beautiful register of the clarinet.
I just played in a college honor band which was extremely top-heavy. The players were ranked (by audition tape) and I would say for the most part they were seated best player and down the line. Egos aside I wish they had put some stronger players in the third section. Most everyone in the group was the principal at their college and probably felt they should be sitting in the first chair.
I know of some places (my school) where the players are rotated quite a lot. Although one of our players only wants to play third. Which is good, her low sound is excellent. I have found though that the students need to be told why they are being moved around so as to not bruise anyone's ego.
Admittedly some of the students simply aren't ready to play first...usually their high register isn't well developed. Or they aren't prepared to play any solos.
My two cents....
Jean
BTW...when I talk of being a student I am a 43 year old master's candidate who is a former band, choir, and general music teacher. Not quite in my seventies although I admit their are days when being around all these young kids I feel that old.
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Author: Denny
Date: 2003-02-16 15:41
I truly enjoy performing and rehearsing with my peers, of every age and ability. It keeps the "play" in my musical regiment. About a year ago I joined a community concert band and was invited to play second. That section was packed, while the 3rd clarinets had only a couple seats occupied. I found a vacant chair and play my heart out. I highly recommend the experience to anyone was hasn't tried it. The only problem with our 3rd clarinet section is it is way too close to the trumpets. We need a moat and a sound barrier. C'est la vie.
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