 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: michael
Date: 1999-09-20 00:29
A recent post mentioned the transition from the Albert system to the Boehm system. I find this interesting and was wondering if anyone could explain what this means. I majored in chemistry not music, so a lot of the music theory and history is new to me. thanks.
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Author: Tim2
Date: 1999-09-20 02:40
There is a book by David Pino called "The Clarinet and Clarinet Playing." It is in print for about $10.00 by Dover books. It has a chapter devoted to the evolution of the clarinet. It is packed. We are moving soon and I can't get to it.
In short, the Albert system was the original system that developed from the clarinet of Mozart and Weber. Shortly after the Boehm system developed. Not all cultures switched to the Boehm system. The Oehler (sp) system evolved from the Albert system and is still in use, primarily in Germany, I believe.
The primary difference between Albert and Boehm systems is that Albert uses roller keys like a saxophone does for use by the little fingers. The Boehm uses non-roller keys. There are duplicate keys for some of the notes so that the left or right little finger can be used to play the note, usually not a problem. The fingerings for notes are different between the two systems also.
Any who actually plays both systems, please feel free to correct or elaborate.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-09-20 03:46
I would like to stress that the Boehm and Albert systems were indeed independently developed.
The Albert grew out of the earlier and simpler Mueller system and went on to be come the Oehler system in countries like Germany.
The Boehm system essentially sprang forth "full grown" when the system that had been developed for flutes was modified to fit the clarinet.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-09-20 15:06
Every Good Book Does Fashion [EGBDF] [on the clarinet, flute and woodwinds in general] a chapter on History and Development [quoting that in Brymer's "Clarinet", Ch. 2, which may be more widely available], paying homage to Theobald Boehm for numerous improvements, particularly the ring-key concept so familiar we forget about it. He and Adolph Sax made it possible for us to play so well! Lawson, Stein, Sachs, Baines et al also have fine descriptions of the paths that cl technology has taken over the 3 centuries. I still wish to look into the "Reform Boehm" which may close the gap between the "German and French" systems. Happy research reading. Don
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Author: Tim Sites
Date: 1999-09-20 20:36
As mentioned, the Boehm and Albert systems were separate systems, based on different acoustical principles, but the Albert system was far simpler to manufacture than the more complex Boehm system. For many years this meant that cheaper instruments were almost exclusively Albert system, while the better horns where Boehm or Oehler (Albert's more sophisticated cousin). You will still see Albert clarinets in use in old New Orleans jazz bands today. Musicians are very conservative in regard to their choice of instruments, and the Boehm system was viewed as just too radical for most. It was mainly the influence of the Paris Conservatory which caused the Boehm system to eventually dominate with the main hold outs in Germany and Russia. Many attempts have been made to improve on the basic Boehm system, but most never gain any widespread popularity with most people choosing instruments whose basic design is the same as that developed well over a century ago.
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Author: Tim2
Date: 1999-09-21 03:02
I have always liked the sound of Russian clarinets. Are you saying that all these years of listening to Russian orchestras, I've probably been listening to Russians playing on an Oehler system? Or even Albert?
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Author: JennyA
Date: 1999-09-21 07:50
Doesn't Woody Allen play an Albert system clarinet? (I thought I read that somewhere, sometime, back in the mists of time.)
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Author: michael
Date: 1999-09-21 11:41
JennyA wrote:
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<<Doesn't Woody Allen play an Albert system clarinet? (I thought I read that somewhere, sometime, back in the mists of time.>>
Jenny, I think I read that somewhere too. I rented "Wild Man Blues"--Woody Allen on tour--and his clarinet looks a little different, but I don't remember seeing any rollers instead of keys. Michael
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-09-21 21:39
I think it's a real hoot to see primarily French designed key system clarinets (i.e. Boehm) here in the US being played by Americans for German music. I would expect the German style horn to predominate in this situation, but as far as I can personally see, Ohler or Albert horns just aren't there in any significant numbers. On the other hand, lots of folks claim to have seen Albert horns in Dixieland Jazz scenes (like the entire side of the hotel in New Orleans with a huge Albert clarinet banner). Imagine German ohm-pa horns belting out complex African based rhythms by some of the best players in the business. Wow!
In these cases, I'd say the culture clash is worth it.
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Author: ron
Date: 1999-09-22 01:16
Hi, Michael -
I've played the Albert system for a long, long time - though I'm partial to its somewhat more sophisticated cousin, the Oehler system. There have been oodles of discussions here, pro and con of the different systems. I would say, as some do... it works for me. If you ever decide to try one you can usually find a few on eBay that are not real expensive (but you may have to invest a few bucks for some pads etc.). As with most instruments, you'll find many key innovations from maker to maker and year to year. But basically, as the above posts have stated, the Albert has a simpler key arrangement than the Boehm. Don't confuse it with the 'simple system' (Mueller) horns you'll find out there - they're **really** simple (also fun too!). Have you/do you play music? It may be fun for you to fool around with, you may get serious about it (as I did), or you might like to own one just for the curiosity of having a piece of history. Or maybe not - whatever you do, playing or appreciating, most of all... have fun!
ron
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-09-22 02:40
Yes Woody Allen plays an Albert system instrument. That information should be in the archives. As I recall reading, he had one custom built for him since the Albert system is no longer made although its descendent, the Oehler system is.
Also not all Alberts had rollers. Some just had plain keys that you had to slide from key to key for the pinky fingers. Rollers became more common in the later years of the Albert system.
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Author: michael
Date: 1999-09-22 03:33
Hi Ron,
I gave up my clarinet when I left Jr.High--my high school did not have a band. I chose medicine early and went to the Health Professions High School in Houston. I have enjoyed a 16 year career as a Physician Assistant, but lately I have wanted to recapture some of my youth; I just turned forty. I pulled out my old Thiboville freres clarinet and am practicing away just for myself. I'm even going to get a new instrument once I find one I like. I have always loved the clarinet. I think they are beautiful instruments.
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Author: michael
Date: 1999-09-22 03:54
Hi Dee,
Sorry if these questions are simplistic. If I were to pick up an Albert system clarinet, would I use pretty much the same fingerings, or is it really a lot different?
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-09-22 04:16
michael wrote:
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Hi Dee,
Sorry if these questions are simplistic. If I were to pick up an Albert system clarinet, would I use pretty much the same fingerings, or is it really a lot different?
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Never worry about simplistic questions. Knowledge grows little by little and starts with the simple things first.
Depends on what you feel is a lot. I find it enough different that if I wanted to actually play mine that I would have to spend several serious weeks practicing. Of course some people may find it easy to adapt. To me it is *more* different than say picking up a saxophone or flute. It seems to be a little closer to an oboe (I fiddled around with my daughter's oboe when she first got it). You can find an Albert system fingering chart in the Rubank Elementary Method Book.
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Author: ron
Date: 1999-09-22 06:15
Michael -
Haven't the time right now to go through all the responses to your post so this may be a repeat comment. But it's worth repeating. If you plan to play in a group, **make sure you get a LOW PITCH instrument**, ESPECIALLY an Albert. A few of the older ones are high pitch (HP) and while the pitch can be lowered in a mickey mouse fashion, tone quality will be sacrificed. They'll usually be marked L.P. or LP or H.P. or HP somewhere on the instrument. It's pretty rare to find a High Pitch Boehm. Get a Low Pitch one.
It's no fun trying to play a bum horn.
ron
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-09-22 20:51
Saw your post, Michael, mentioning the T F. I got one recently via EBAY, mainly because earlier I ran on to a Thib which I gave to a teacher-friend in Tulsa to sell to an advancing student, she liked it so much its now her #2or3 cl! Good intonation and sound-quality she says! I put my "newer" one in playing-shape, but really havent tried it out with the big-kids, its out on loan now, hope its as good. Any comments you can make will be of interest!!! TKS, Don
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Author: michael
Date: 1999-09-23 02:45
Don, I do like my Thibouville Freres clarinet. My mother bought it for me in 1974 for $50.00. It has been used one year by another student. Until one month ago I had never played another clarinet. I had no idea there were any differences between the brands until I started looking at instruments and reading here. One thing I have noticed since trying a Normandy and a Yamaha (both student models) is that my clarinet has very quiet left and right pinky keys. I thought they were suppose to be quiet, so I never gave it much thought. The tone is "bright" sounding to me. It says "made in France" on the wood. It has held up very well sitting in its case for most of two decades. I tried to give it to my son a few years ago (he was 8) so I had the corks and pads changed then. He recently converted to trumpet; the family is obviously upset about this, but we'll try to support his decision.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-09-24 22:14
Thanx Michael, my oboe-playing daughter moved to folk guitar, and best cl-playing son moved to tenor sax , then to bass guitar, other son gave up, but 3 of his kids at least played something!! When my Thib returns will work with it again. Much fun, right? Don
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Author: michael
Date: 1999-09-25 02:11
Don, yes, playing is indeed a lot of fun. I'm sorry I took such a long break, but there is still time. Besides my son on trumpet, my nephew is learning alto sax so our homes are noisy with music. Let me know what you think of your Thibouville when you get to use it some. Mark sent me an e-mail a little while back giving me some information about the makers of the Thib. If you want me to forward that to you just drop me an e-mail at TrekkerPA@aol.com.
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Author: Eoin
Date: 1999-10-13 14:54
I've never played an Albert, but I've seen the fingering
chart. As far as I can tell, the main differences are:
o the fingerings which give Bb and F on a Boehm will give you B and F# on an Albert, so the sequence G A Bb C D E F G becomes G A B C D E F# G
o you have to use keys to get Bb and F
o the little finger keys are all different
A lot of the keys, such as the A key and the register key are the same.
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