 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Morrigan
Date: 2003-02-03 00:02
OK, so, I am studying music at college, with ambitions to work hard and become a 'professional' (in the most general sense of the word). The catch-22 is that I already consider myself a 'professional' - meaning that everything I do, whether paid or not, I work strictly as a 'professional'.
I have read (but will not quote directly)that the bridge between being a student and professional [in Australia] is large - meaning it is getting harder and harder for a student to 'break in' to the 'professional world'.
Now is it just me, or is it different with other degrees: you complete your degree i.e. law, science, etc., and you are considered a professional, and recieve job offers and begin work almost immediately after you complete college? Why is this different with music? Why do we still have years of hard work after leaving college before we 'make it' in the professional music industry?
In my audition for the college I just got into, they asked "What do you want to get out of this course, and where do you expect to be at when you graduate?" I answered that I hoped to be at a level where I could begin auditioning for professional orchestras and have 'paid gigs'. However, I am more than a little afraid of the 'bridge' between student musician and professional musician. How does one make it? How did all you 'professionals' who post here make it?
Again, thanks in advance. =]
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: thomas piercy
Date: 2003-02-03 00:05
To paraphrase a real pro:
It depends on what your definition of what "make it" is.
After that definition, your definition, is cleared up, perhaps some worthwhile answers can help you.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-02-03 00:14
Morrigan wrote:
>
>
> Now is it just me, or is it different with other degrees: you
> complete your degree i.e. law, science, etc., and you are
> considered a professional, and recieve job offers and begin
> work almost immediately after you complete college?
It's just you ...
The degree you get in other fields is just an entrée into the working world. The only real difference is that the demand for musicians is considerably lower than it is for engineers or many other fields.
Not so many years ago the demand for English teachers was just about nil, so you saw many of those people in positions other than what they thought they would be upon graduation - I've worked alongside many English majors in the computer field.
Don't even get me started on poli-sci (an oxymoron if there ever was one majors ...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Morrigan
Date: 2003-02-03 00:17
My definition of professional:
______________________________
Someone who is employed full-time to play their instrument, whether it be solo, ensemble, or orchestra, in a position they obtained through competitive audition.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-02-03 00:20
Morrigan wrote:
>
> My definition of professional:
> Someone who is employed full-time to play their instrument,
> whether it be solo, ensemble, or orchestra, in a position they
> obtained through competitive audition.
Does that include making enough money to survive?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2003-02-03 00:20
When I was 16 Anton Stadler called me for a concert... (sorry, just kidding)
Actually, I "turned professional" when I was 16. My uncle (a professional musician) asked me to accompany him to one of his gigs at a hotel in the Catskill mountains (New York). I brought my saxophone and clarinet, played a bunch of standards for an hour and was paid $20.
I was hooked for life...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brandon
Date: 2003-02-03 00:44
In my opinion, the bridge between student/amateur and professional is consistency. Yes, I could most likely go into the professional orchestra here in town and play most pieces. But I also have to nail those nail biters(Firebird, Scheherazade, Beethoven 6, Daphnis, etc.) ten times out of ten. If not, you get fired. Its that simple. Play out of tune, and you lose your job. Even a student can nail Firebird SOMETIMES. Then you have to consider the competition. Students at the leading conservatories are amazing. But there is no way they will all get jobs. There is nothing wrong with calling yourself a professional though. But will calling youself a professional bring the bread home?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-02-03 01:11
Morrigan wrote:
>
> Mark C: Absoloutely.
Well, if that means making enough money to survive by playing only - you going to toss out about 70% of the professionals I know, since most don't make enough to survive by playing alone. Check what opera playing pays (with the exception of the Met) ...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2003-02-03 01:39
1. Had some talent, got some early encouragement,
2. Took lessons with good teachers,
3. Got into good schools,
4. Met some great players, made some good friends,
5. Graduated from Juilliard,
6. Auditioned for some good orchestra gigs,
7. Got some good orchestra gigs,
8. Left those gigs to do better gigs,
9. Married a great Lady, had 3 great kids (the best part),
10.Played with all the best musicians here in NYC for 40 years,
11.Still working, still having fun, never looking back,
12.Life's a BALL, music is fun, friends and family are the best.
Enjoy your life now, Morrigan, the best is yet to come.
It's not the gig...it's getting there that's the fun and joy in living.
JJM
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: R13A
Date: 2003-02-03 02:49
my, we have a dialogue going on here.....M & M, that's nice (:o)
Morrigan......when 'they' posed that question to you relating to what you want to get out of it, etc.......Did you pose a question to 'them'........how do you intend to teach me/prepare me and better help me help myself ????
Although there are a bazillion 'things' we put into and get out of college, a given curriculium is perhaps viewed as a descipline to help us better prepare for a chosen world we care to enter. (:o)
regards
dennis
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Peacham
Date: 2003-02-03 08:58
Morrigan, it's misleading to say that musicians have to work for years before they make it, when students of other subjects are considered professionals from the day they graduate.
If you study medicine, you aren't qualified to earn any money at all much before you're 25. You won't be a consultant much before 35, often later.
If you study for the bar (a "barrister" in England is a lawyer qualified to represent his clients in the higher law courts) then you are self-employed from the day you qualify, and it may be ten years before you make a decent living. Many drop out.
If you are a clarinet player, you can be a principal in a leading orchestra in your early twenties. Try that in any other profession. Of course, only a tiny minority achieve that, but only a tiny minority get to the top in any field.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Karel
Date: 2003-02-03 09:54
Morrigan, I think that almost everyone who loves and enjoys music would like to let it occupy the larger part of their life, and indeed would like to concentrate their energies on it. In real life, of course, there will not be enough people willing to pay the price of supporting all such performers. So long as colleges and conservatoria produce more graduates than there are fully financed positions for, we will have part time musicians who have to use other means to make a good living. Perhaps we should look at a conservatorium as a place to acquire a wider appreciation of music, as well as the ability to perform it; without feeling that there is a public that is obliged to pay to hear us without the right to exercise their critical faculties in making that choice.
What I am trying to say is that almost all lovers of music would enjoy devoting their working life to it. That does not leave many to make up the paying audience and hence relative occupational unemployment and poor earning capacity. But if you are outstanding things do turn in your favour, so persevere .... At worst you will
be able to enjoy your music-making and noone will be able to take that away from you.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alphie
Date: 2003-02-03 12:44
I'll quote JJM and swap Juliard for my European conservatory, I married two ladies and I have worked for 20 years in Europe. For the rest it could have been my life.
During my final years at conservatory I took six month off twice to work for a full time professional orchestra. After graduation I freelanced full time for 13 years. In the beginning I never turned down a payed gig. I accepted practically everything from playing principal in "Dances from Galanta", Eb in Daphnis to obscure opera productions at strange locations as well as early clarinets and studio gigs. I later became an "expert" in early clarinet and Eb clarinet but there is not a clarinet model under the sun, from three keyed baroque clarinet to BBb contra I haven't used professionally in concerts and recordings. (EEb contra and Ab clarinet is yet to come however). Since seven years now I have a cl./Eb-cl. possition in a major Philharmonic orchestra.
I think a good way to build the bridge in the beginning between college/conservatory and professional life is to have the confidence to take whatever payed work there is, always be in good shape, practice your clarinet, bass clarinet, Eb clarinet, prepare yourself and do a good job. Make friends with other musicians, have a beer together and show them who you are and make yourself available. One gig will lead to the other before you know it if you are good and flexible enough.
Alphie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jez
Date: 2003-02-03 13:08
I suppose the main difference between music and other walks of life is that when you're performing your employers, colleagues and clients can tell instantly how good you are at your job. No-one is interested in qualifications. It's purely competitive.
At the moment we are trying to fill a vacancy as 3rd/bass clar. in a full-time job. Auditions are held behind screens so we on the panel have no idea who is playing and don't get to see any details of qualification or experience until after the candidate has been rejected or short-listed.
While it's important to get the most out of your degree course, in the end it counts for nothing as far as pro. playing is concerned.
I know plenty of very well-qualified people I wouldn't want to work with and several people who have enjoyed long careers as performers who don't have any relevant qualification.
jez
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: HAT
Date: 2003-02-03 13:36
Basically, when other good professionals start treating you like on of them. . .you're one of them.
I don't think this is the right thread to talk about the specific differences one MIGHT expect to encounter between students and professionals.
Let's just say that "plays like a student" gets heard a lot.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-02-03 14:16
Interesting thread. But, maybe I am too old and things have changed, but I ALWAYS considered that the definition of a PROFESSIONAL included:
Membership in your local Musicians Union.
Bob A
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Thomas Piercy
Date: 2003-02-03 15:18
Union membership:
Membership in the Union does not necessarily mean you are a working musician -- a pro. The union takes membership fees from anyone willing to pay them. Just sign up and pay -- there are hundreds, thousands of people listed in the Local 802 (NYC) union book -- many, many of them are not working or currently working.
Making it;
Sometimes even being a "pro" does not mean you are working that day or week. In the pro world it can sometimes be feast or famine -- alternating periods between being incredibly busy with projects and times when things are not too busy at all.
My work is mostly in chamber and solo recitals, studio and recording -- so there really isn't a yearly contract or one "boss" -- thank goodness. The trade off of not having a yearly or seasonal contract and knowing the exact amount of money coming in is the freedom to work with all different types of people and situations and types of music. I found freedom much more important to me than knowing where the check was coming from each week. (Not having children or a partner to support makes this much easier.)
Your question: "how do you make it?"
Many very good items in J. J. Moses list especially:
good teachers and playing with other good musicians.
I would like to add the importance of always being prepared. Even in those times when you perhaps are not playing or performing very much, you MUST stay in shape. You must stay in shape for any call that comes in for you to play at a moments notice. Horns in shape, reeds in shape, you in shape to play. Ready for the next thing.
This means years of commitment to practicing as written about in recent threads. It has been a conscious and usually unspoken commitment to playing as well as possible, to continuing the process of improvement and learning. The payoff is the incredible joy of receiving what that commitment brings.
Tom Piercy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Heidi
Date: 2003-02-03 15:32
Morrigan wrote:
>
> My definition of professional:
> Someone who is employed full-time to play their instrument,
> whether it be solo, ensemble, or orchestra, in a position they
> obtained through competitive audition.
Does this include teaching?? Teaching is a professional gig that happens everyday that you get paid for. This counts as professional, at least in my mind.
Heidi
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: graham
Date: 2003-02-03 17:43
Interested in Jez's comment about auditions going on behind screens and the whole thing being anonomized. How widespread is that? Or is it the BBC doing the politically correct thing? (not that I object). Otherwise I think more emphasis might be given to Alphie's point about being willing to have a beer. If you need to get the foot in the door in any situation it seems to me (from what I have heard from a few hardened including disillusioned professionals) it helps to be very sociable indeed. Sometimes toe curlingly so.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alphie
Date: 2003-02-03 22:36
Graham,
Having auditions behind a screen is a normal procedure in practically every symphony orchestra in the world that I've ever heard of. I was only talking about having a beer with fellow musicians in a sociable context of self promotion in a casual environment in a situation being at the breakingpoint of making a career on the freelance scene. In that case it's very important to make connections who can verify that you are an excellent player as well as a sociable guy. But remember, it's easy to spot a brownnose and being sociable doesn't cover up if one is a bad player.
(And be careful with the beer).
Alphie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
