 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-01-27 14:54
I've had my LL ('64 vintage) for about six months now. After some tweaking it appears to be in excellent shape. I intend to use it mostly for doubling in a local Big Band, where my regular position is 3rd alto sax. In fact, I have started doubling on it for a few weeks now and the results are quite satisfactory, considering that the LL is my first clarinet in half a century! The only concern I have is the rather shrill tone in the clarion register (the higher the shriller). Even my wife, who is not musical at all, has commented on it! This may be OK in the band (cf. Artie Shaw's to Benny Goodman's tone) but would probably not be appropriate in the classical genre that I may wish to pursue as well. I am using a B45 mouthpiece and a 2.5 Rico Royal reed. My question is: is this typical of the LL with its rather wide bore, or would a different mouthpiece make a large difference for that genre? Or, alternatively, is it just me? The only other mouthpiece I have tried is an old Brilhart (B3) that was on the horn when I bought it. It sounds very similar to the VD B45. I'll be grateful for any comments/suggestions.
Henry
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2003-01-27 15:20
I would change barrels and the mouthpiece to help your tone. Get an Eddie Daniels Deg Moenig barrel and try a different mouthpiece/reed combo. You can order from Woodwind and Brasswind or International Musical Suppliers and send back what you don't like. But, if you're a Vandoren fan you might try a 5JB. Or, get with someone like Gregory Smith and ask him for one that will help to "darken" your tone.
I think you'll get a better tone as you practice on your instrument while listening to your tone. Relax your throat when you're in the
screech zone. There are other things you can do as well. You might do a "search" on this board for some other suggestions.
The LL typically has a nice big tone that is perfect for big band music and doublers love them.
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Author: Larry Garges
Date: 2003-01-27 16:18
Try a harder reed first before getting on the mouthpiece buying merry-go-round- 2.5 Rico Royals seem kind of soft for a B-45 (However, that being said, there are many darker sounding mouthpieces than a B-45).
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2003-01-27 16:20
You might also try the Vandoren V-12 2 1/2 before you go up to a 3 if you are wanting to keep a soft reed.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-01-27 16:32
You might also give your chops a bit longer to tighten up. The sax embouchure seems to be (from my beginner sax point of view) far more loose than would be satisfactory on clarinet. That would also help explain the 2.5 reed on a B45; you'd have to play pretty loose to be comfortable with a 2.5 on that mouthpiece.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-01-27 18:01
Hi Henry - Having owned a few B45's and played more via repairing student horns, I have developed a dislike for B45's. I prefer VD's 11.6, a glass mp refaced to 5RVL, WW's G8 and a Yamaha 4C for band and general use, usually with med-soft to med-hard reeds depending on the music [range], using Bonade-type ligs on my LeBlancs, Dyn 2 and L7. Presently on EBAY, search LeBlanc clarinet, there are Combs 3 and Marcellas M13 mps at low bids, if you wish to try a "big" name. I've had some LL and Dyn H [big .590" bore like the P F] experience also, the LL [in my brochures] is a .582" bore, [medium IMHO, like mine]. LeB, prob. has "played-around" with modified bores, conicals and polycyls in the time period of these models, to match competition with Buff and Sel, hard to determine. I still try different mps on my horns too. Look on the mp charts Luck, Don
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-01-27 18:36
Don's comments concerning the B45 are right on...
Aside from their individual inconsistancy in facings (another whole issue in itself) there are numerous mouthpieces (not only for a serious doubler, but for beginning/intermediate students) which will be more reed and user friendly than the highly over rated, and over recommended, B45.
For less money and less frustration, examine the entry level mouthpieces by both Fobes and Hite.
I seriously think it is time to rewrite the college syllabus for Woodwind Methods 101 and eliminate the B45 as the first mouthpiece of choice...GBK
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Author: Clarence
Date: 2003-01-27 19:03
There are a lot of mouthpieces out there that are "not ready for prime time" and that includes the B45.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-01-27 20:34
Thanx, GBK and Clarence, I was [and still am] fearful of getting into deep, hot water, with recent and old, poorly-technical sop. mp evaluation comments. I recalled experiences like Henry's "shrill" [overly-brilliant?] tonality. Yes, even some local high school reed teachers still recommend B45's, have wondered if there may be some music store "payola" involved. Happily some teachers are more reasonable, wish they would ask the stores to stock some Fobes and Hites. Living dangerously, but not risking much, I'm attempting to "improve" the also-inexpensive Yamaha 4C, to a 5-6?. I feel more comfortable tho with my bass cl mps, Pomaricos! Regards, Don
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-01-27 21:12
Thanks for all the very useful comments. You guys are great! I realize now that I may have been too rash picking a B45 (on the recommendation of some fellow band members). As in sax mpcs, this is a very confusing area. It is clear that I may have to look for something else. As far as reeds are concerned, I finally settled on the 2.5 Rico Royal because they appeared to be very consistent, easy blowing, and not prone to squeaking (a problem I struggled with initially). Today I tried a 2.5 Vandoren and the tendency to squeak was there again! And we haven't even talked about ligatures (I have the original metal Leblanc with the cut-out L)! Of course, as Fred said, my clarinet embouchure is still developing and I am reasonably convinced that most of the problems I still have will gradually disappear with practice.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-01-27 21:34
Be prepared, your LL may still have a piercing tone up top.
Leon designed this horn to be heard through a crowd.
Cheapest work around this is to play with reeds for awhile, the B45 is like any other mouthpiece - it needs to fit the player.
If the B45 is comfortable, a little time (and no small amount of money) may help you tame the Tiger with a strip of cane!
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2003-01-27 22:21
my LL is the strongest sounding wood clarinet i own .like someone above said it was desighned to be heard. i am going to have to go against brenda on recommending a vandoreen 5jb as this mpc takes serious chops to play.its extremly open and not for people of limited or still developing emb strength. the prob with the b45 seems to be inconsistance.some good some not so good. i used the b45 untill i switched to the larry combs 3 which is vastly superiour and i highly recommend it. i too have more squeeking problems with vandoreen reeds and recommend mitchel-lure . i also use rico royal but do find them to be on the bright side. a rovner ligature will take some edge off your tone so you might want to give one a try. recommend the dark or mk3 (not the light) . a deg barell will also brighten your sound so stay with the wood .
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Author: stan shipley
Date: 2003-01-28 00:54
I really appreciate the comments on Leblanc LL Tone and different mouthpieces and reeds. About 2 years ago, I got a used late '60's LL clarinet, returning to a clarinet after nearly a 40 year abscence.
My interest is swing/pop/dixie land music. The B45 mp that came with the horn and ML and LaVOZ reeds (2.5 - 3 strength) work for me........VanDoren V12 #3 is still too hard, but I am not that good.
I do have a VanDoren 5JB but prefer the B45 (maybe a little more controllable and refined)
As my embrochure improves and I try to get better TONE in mainly the upper registers (and less squeaks), would I be better to seek another reed/mouthpiece combinations as you suggest.
Thanks
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2003-01-28 01:07
Henry, I just bought a Leblanc LL a couple months ago. Once i got it serviced the horn played great. I double on the clarinet so I share your frustration as a sax player doubling on the "agony stick." I too play a B45 which is a major love/hate relationship. I used to use weaker reeds to avoid the resistance but I could not stand the thin bright edgy tone. After months of trial I am happy with Vandoren Blue Box #3. Just saturday I played a dinner-gig where I blended in an orchestra full of R13s for the first hour and a half then played a Swing Band to finish off the night. In both situations the LL worked fine without a gear switch. I agree with those that are saying that the B45 is not necessarily the best mouthpiece. I want a Morgan RM15! However, the B45 is no slouch either.
Yesterday I hated the tone I was getting out of my clarinet but today I loved it. I really want to get a Morgan but part of me is determined to tame this B45 first.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2003-01-28 03:51
I agree with Synonymous and super20dan that the LL is designed to play loud. That's why I play one. If you want a rich dark tone go with a small bore: R13, Opus, 10G, etc. If you want more power and less resistance go with the LL. A great horn for doubling.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-01-28 12:27
Hey Henry,
Does anyone actually razz you about your sound?
It could be that what you hear (in close proximity) as strident may actually sound clear and sweet out in the hall!
I wonder if a little adjustment of reed position (exposing more of the tip rail by sliding the reed toward the bell end, slightly) may take some edge out of the sound?
It's like trimming the reed without a knife...(free, too!)
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Author: Katfish
Date: 2003-01-28 14:15
I echo Don and GBK's opinions of the B45, but would also add the Pyne Polycrystal as an inexpensive option to try.
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-01-28 16:58
Wow, I didn't expect that many responses! Considering all the input, I'll probably stay with my set-up for a while, let my embouchure develop further, and experiment a bit more with reeds. That is certainly the cheaper option. I hate to think that I would have to spend more on accesories than on the horn itself (just over $300). My Dutch frugal nature has a problem with that! Overall, I love the LL. It has great intonation and volume. It seems ideal for doubling in the big band where I have no problem being heard! I thought that the upper register was a bit "shrill", or as Don says more kindly "overly brilliant", but (in answer to Synonymous Botch) noone in the band has commented negatively on that. In fact, I have received only positive reactions. I still do think that in a classical setting, I'll need a somewhat darker tone and, for that, I'll obviously need to make some changes. I'm open to further suggestions. Thanks all of you again for the input.
Henry
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