 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2003-01-25 03:44
I've been trying several new and a used R-13s.
Observations 1: The majority (3 out of 5) had a sticking problem of the thumb (F4) ring key (meaning a microsecond or longer delay of the key returning/rising after being depressed) usually after a brief warm up period, and as a result of coming up from E. One well known repair shop (first initial "B") told me this is a fairly common problem with R-13's, and the only way to correct it is to replace the material Buffet uses on the underside of the E gizmo that contacts with the thumb F key lever (needless to say not their exact words!)
Observation 2: On at least 2 of the 5 instruments, the A (A5 one line above staff) plays with significantly more resistance with less volume (aka "stuffy") than the G below or B above. I say "at least" because I already sent the previous two back instruments back before I had the pleasure of playing one that had equal resistance, so I didn't really focus on that issue with the first two. But two of the three I am currently trying have this excessive resistence on this one note, one somewhat worse than the other. In a practice situation the other night, I was playing a piece on what I thought at the moment was my "favorite" R-13. There was a fairly quick slurred G4 to A5 jump and I couldn't understand why there was a slight delay from 4 to 5. Aside from the fact I don't have the airstream of a pro, this problem was greatly aggavated by the excessive resistence of this A5.
Observation 3: Being the curious person I am, I peered through the bore of the top piece of these instruments, and the thumb hole tube that protudes into the bore was a visibly different length between at least two of the instruments. Is this difference typical to adapt each instrument's intonation during the final tweaking process at the factory, or is this an anomaly, and, if so, what problems, if any, might it cause?
Observation 4: The finish of the wood on one was more transparent and lighter and fine grained than on two others which appeared more heavily coated with the dark stain that is used. Is this be any indication of a difference in quality of the wood, or just a superficial thing?
I'd love to hear any thoughts on these comments.
I have become as greatly impressed with the differences between instruments of the same make and model as I am with their similarities. Pity the poor beginner who has no idea why he is struggling with issues made much more difficult by a poorly adjusted instrument. One of the best services a good instructor or band director can provide is to sensitively play test student's instruments to help identify these issues. Not just that the notes play, but to identify when the instrument needs adjusting/repair to achieve the playability that most instrument are capable of.
Jerry
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Author: classifan
Date: 2003-01-25 04:46
Wow, you are more crazy than i am.
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Author: Rene
Date: 2003-01-25 08:31
Nice and detailed description. I think it had been an ever repeating issue here that you have to hand select the Buffet instruments. However, I'd love to hear an explanation of the tube differences.
The question I like to add is this: Is the same true for the Greenline series. For I would love to buy such an instrument, but there is no way I can test play serveral of them round here in Germany.
Also, it would be interesting to hear Buffet's comments on this.
Rene
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Author: Dee
Date: 2003-01-25 11:40
Item 1 - merely means the screw was too tight and needs adjustment. It's not a big deal and many clarinets need this adjusted.
Item 2 - probably also an adjustment issue.
Item 3 - have no idea. Perhaps one of the instruments was a different year of manufacture and they changed the design slightly.
Item 4 - different individual pieces of wood have different grain and take the stain differently.
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2003-01-25 12:11
Dee...
I understand Observation 1 may sometimes be an overtight screw, or maybe a combination of overtight screw and sticky material at the lever contact point.
In my recent experience, after I gave a detailed description of the problem to the kind, patient lady at the respected "tweak" shop, without hesitation she said what I described is a commom problem that, in her experience, can most often amd reliably be cured by replacing the material underneath the contact point where the f level meets (probably with teflon or similar material). It appears that what comes from the factory (a thin strip of cork or cork-like material?), is overly saturated with the never-totally drying, gooey adhesive that reaches out and hangs on to the f lever. In fact, of the 5 instruments I've tried, the only one that didn't have at least some hint of this problem is one sent by a dealer who I mentioned my previous experience to, and who, without hesitation, sent a trial horn with teflon at this point - problem solved.
Jerry
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Author: Clarence
Date: 2003-01-25 13:06
Thanks Jerry. I have heard other people say things like "I had to try 12 R-13's before I found one that I liked". It is helpfull to know something about the horns that 'didn't make it'.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2003-01-25 14:15
Yes, I think many have mentioned multiple trials of R-13s before finding one to purchase or keep. I'm still trying silver-keyed models and haven't found one yet. It's beginning to get frustrating. But my dealer has another shipment coming in a couple of weeks. A good one is worth the wait.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2003-01-25 16:21
Still replacing the cork between the keys is a simple and inexpensive change and is NOT a good reason to not choose a specific instrument if everything else is good. Same with the stuffy A. An adjustment will take care of it.
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-01-26 04:01
I used to end up with a sticky thumb ring key. I mentioned this to Lelia, who suggested that I use scrivner(sp?) leather instead of cork. Her husband binds books and kindly gave me a piece of super thin leather. This solved my problem. Next horn, after I get the leather on, I may wrap the whole stem with a layer of teflon plumbers tape. (I'm finding more places to use that stuff to quiet keys, etc.)
"Pity the poor beginner who has no idea why he is struggling with issues made much more difficult by a poorly adjusted instrument."
I have been playing more than 40 years and never know why I am having problems. I may be fooling with three horns and each is very different, but I can't figure out which I like best. Then I change reeds and everything is different. And sometimes I take apart an instrument to solve one problem and fix another by accident. (Or create one.) I say, pity the rest of us, too. Clarinets are machines that almost don't work
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2003-01-26 17:55
What would be the major things that should cause a trial instrument to be rejected, versus the minor things that should cause one to say, hey, that's easily fixed (at least by the average technician) -overall, this is a keeper.
If I might hazard a guess, in order of major to minor problems:
1. Intonation/tuning (mostly objective)
2. Tone not as desired (most subjective)
3. Excessive variation in resistance between adjacent notes (harder to explain to average tech, depending on how severe)
4. Stuffy sounds (harder to explain to an average tech, depending on how severe)
5. Pad buzz or tick (obvious to anyone)
6. Sticking keys (generally an obvious and repeatable event)
I would think the less ones' access to a trusted expert tech, the higher number "cut off point" would be. For example, I don't know good techs, and distance explanations of complex or potentially subjective problems are difficult and solutions more costly and time consuming. Therefore, I would reject an instrument for anything numbered less than 5, because those problems (1-4) are either harder to explain, harder to solve or are more subjective.
Where do you agree/disagree? What would you add?
Jerry
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Author: Clarence
Date: 2003-01-27 14:59
Jerry,
You are asking some good questions. Maybe someday more people will help with the answers. I wonder what the chosen R-13 had that the other 11 didn't.
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