 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Eric G
Date: 2003-01-23 02:39
Hi,
I received my "new" old Buffet clarinet. By the serial # it was made in 1907.
The overall length is between that of my R13 Bb and my Farny C.
It appears to be tuned to B natural... OR is that what HP (High Pitch) means? (excuse my ignorance here!) Does HP imply tuning a full 1/2 step higher?
With the barrel that came with it, about the size of my Bb barrel, it was pretty much in tune with itself- (In the key of B at "440".) Notes were consistently identified by the tuner as 1/2 step higher than the fingering used.
I played middle C on my piano (it was recently tuned), played a C on the C clarinet, D on the Bb, but a C# on this one to match pitch.
I tried my C barrel on the horn with my Pyne M13B mouthpiece and was able to have it register in C range on my tuner (Seiko tuner/metronome @ 440), but some of the notes were still almost 25 cts flat.
Any ideas?
Thanks-
Eric
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Author: Eric G
Date: 2003-01-23 02:45
Hi,
I realized I made an error in the 4th paragraph. The tuner registered 1/2 step Lower..
EG
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Author: Wes
Date: 2003-01-23 07:28
Some of the HP clarinets I've checked seem to come out at about A 453, which, if I recall correctly, is the British Army official pitch in the middle of the 19th century, in the middle of a half step. Helmholtz's book, "Sensations of Tone" lists many different pitches, by the way. My Buffet from 1889 has an absolutely wonderful sound at HP, A 453.
Some others are closer to a 1/2 step high.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-01-23 17:42
Well, Eric... maybe - just maybe... if it's closer to a full 1/2 step than the majority of H.P. clarinets I've run across(I speak only from my own limited experience), you might get it to play in tune with other modern instruments.
As Wes points out, with good references, ideally you could :|
It's possible, I suppose, since there was never an established 'standard' high pitch. H.P. seems to have varied region to region, town to town, maker to maker.... Bummer for us today.
It might put you in some awful keys(signatures that is) but at least you could play with A-440 instruments. If not, tune up with a guitar, etc., and enjoy making music that way
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Author: Kat
Date: 2003-01-23 21:46
Hey Eric,
Got your email but haven't had a chance to answer yet...
So I'll answer here...LOL!
I suspect it _is_ HP because while B clarinets were made, there weren't many and they were really really rare even while they were made...
I have one HP Bflat horn (marked that way on the horn) but it IS NOT in playing condition. It even has a cobweb in the lower joint, and I've never even tried to honk on it...
Unfortunately the length won't tell all either...and mine is no Buffet!
Are you sure about the eefer? ;^)
xoxo,
Katrina
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2003-01-23 21:58
Eric G,
I guess your clarinet doesn't have B marking (or does it?) before HP. In this case it is possible that your clarinet is B-natural where "H" = "B". An "H" means "H"-pitch rather that High Pitch
"B" in European terminology means "B flat" as opposed to "H" which is "B" natural.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-01-23 23:29
Standard British high pitch is in fact averaged out at A=453. The British Army bands began converting to low pitch or 'diapason normal' of A=440 from 1888. This process lasted until the early part of the 20th century. The British brass band however remained firmly high pitch until at least 1965 when Boosey and Hawkes stopped production of high pitch instruments. Boosey's and possibly other instrument makers had been running parallel production ie. both high and low pitch, of both brass and military band woodwind,until 1965. Civilian bands of the military format began converting to low pitch during the early 20th century but many of these bands also stuck to high pitch. The resistance to low pitch can be at least partially be explained by the fact that the musicians themselves preferred the lighter sound that high pitch afforded. My father, an ex trombonist, tells of the immediate post war period where all his local brass bands were still high pitch. Of the two local military bands, Droylesden and Salford, in the north of England only one was low pitch. He had a low pitch trombone and only read the bass clef so his choice was limited only to the low pitch military band.
In Australia when I was growing up the local brass band was low pitch but had only just converted when I started playing circa 1973. At least for a little while the brass band a couple of suburbs away was still high pitch but converted shortly after. By this stage in Australia all the military bands were low pitch. I remember clarinettists and cornet players who had both high and low pitch barrels and crooks, to hell with intonation, to enable them to play either way. Orchestral pitch seems to have standardised to A=440 sometime before the end of the 19th century. Another problem associated with pitch was that of the non concert pitch piano. Pianos likewise were tuned to either high or low pitch for accompaniment purposes. There was a practice amongst piano tuners, especially out of the city, of tuning pianos to themselves without reference to either high or low pitch. Needless to say they were even flatter than low pitch. Instrumentalists playing with these pianos were required to tune flat by any means possible. French instrument makers had even more variations on high and low pitch.
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Author: Eric G
Date: 2003-01-24 01:27
Hi,
It appears that some markings were "rubbed off" under the logo. I don't know if it could have been marked B or HP... On the underside of the right B/E key is stamped a "T".
According to my Seiko SMP-20 Chromatic Tuner/metronome, the horn using the barrel that came with it (which was 1-2 mm longer than my R13 Bb barrel)was in tune and in tune with itself, at A=440. It was pitched in B Natural, note for note. I fingering "C", it registered "B natural" and was at "zero" on the tuner. Overall tone quality was definitely Buffet.
Using the C clarinet barrel, it was pretty much in tune, at least in as much tune as my C clarinet. Open "G" was sharp, but I was able to lip it down somewhat. Note for note, it pretty much matched pitch of the C clarinet and registered pitch in "C" on the tuner at A=440. In the upper register, G-C, notes were "on the money".
A very cool horn. It certainly has me and a number of clarinet friends puzzled. It seems odd that a HP Bb horn would play in tune, as well as in tune with itself at exactly 1/2 pitch above a regulated Bb horn.
What do you think?
Eric
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2003-01-24 03:24
It seems odd that a HP Bb horn would play in tune, as well as in tune with itself at exactly 1/2 pitch above a regulated Bb horn. What do you think?
I think, it's odd to call this horn "HP Bb" when there is no (rubbed off) such a marking on the horn. B-natural horns are very rare but they do exist and it happened I own one.
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Author: Eric G
Date: 2003-01-24 03:42
Hi,
I didn't think it was a HP horn because of the tuning. I wouldn't think that a HP Bb would easily tune...
Its also interesting that the pitch can be raised pretty well using the C barrel...
As I mentioned, this Buffet was made in 1907, based upon the serial #, xxxY.
Unfortunately, whatever was once marked under the logo is not there... I guess this really could be a B natural horn, that can somewhat easily be pitched up using a C clarinet barrel... I'd much rather play a Boehm system C versus an Albert system (which is what my Farny is)
Very interesting... What make of horn was your B Natural and when was it made? I've read that Mozart did score something for 2 B Natural clarinets. Have you done anything with it?
I sent an e-mail to Boosey.com, but am not to optimistic that I will receive a reply...
Thanks for your reply.
Eric
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-01-24 04:04
Maybe the rubbed off letter was a European "H", rather than a "B" and is tuned to who-knows-what-frequency High Pitch. I think you'd better get used to playing in some uncommon keys for clarinet)) It'll do wonders for your sight-transposing skills!
-OR-
As Vytas says, it may be a rare instrument that happens to play in tune and not a H.P. horn at all.
8[Ohhhhh.....^*+&`~@* wouldn't THAT be FUNNY]!
(still leaves you playing in tough keys though)....
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-01-24 04:08
I must've dropped in between posts. I see now that you can tune up to "C". In that case you're home free Enjoy!
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Author: DougR
Date: 2003-01-25 02:37
There was a piece in The Clarinet some years ago about a weirdly tuned clarinet that turned out to be a B-natural instrument. I've got the issue in this rat-s nest of an apartment somewhere, but you might try their index (I'm thinking of the back-issue solicitation they send in every issue) or call 'em up. Try also the Shrine To Music museum--the curator there really knows her stuff.
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