 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: wjk
Date: 2003-01-18 20:19
I'm confused about the notion of a "Jazz" clarinet. For example, is a "wide bore" clarinet such as the Pete Fountain clarinet appropriate to play classical music on? I assume with a more closed mouthpiece, you could play classical music on such a clarinet. Am I mistaken? Are the Buffet R13s the best choice for jazz? Why?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2003-01-18 20:25
Well it seems that jazz players gravitate towards wide bore clarinets (like the old Selmer Balanced Tone) and the classical players gravitate towards the narrow bore (like the R-13). However the player is more important than the horn. With an appropriate setup either type of horn can be used for either type of music.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-01-18 20:40
I think there is a natural tendency in the timbre of a wide bore clarinet, and it may be more 'forward' than the sound favored by most modern orchestras for symphonic work.
No need for microphones with a B&H 1010, Conn 444 or Selmer CT when the right player sits behind it.
Now playing them quietly is another fettle of kish, entirely.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-01-18 20:58
Very well said, both Dee and S B, it does take practice to both blow loud-jazzy and soft-classic on the same clar, but it can be done IMHO! Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Peter
Date: 2003-01-18 21:49
The right tool for the job at hand!
If you don't have it, you'll incur inconvenience and, personally speaking, inconvenience is not conducive to enjoyment, as playing my clarinet needs to be.
I have, both, narrow and wide bore instruments and different mouthpieces I use with them. I find it frustrating to try to get the "big noise" (that's what my wife says it is) out of a narrower bore clarinet and/or a too-closed mouthpiece.
So if you play jazz and classical and you can have one (or more) of each, do it, if not, don't sweat it, as, within reasonable parameters, you can play anything you want on the same instrument with a little work and dedication.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2003-01-18 22:35
I use R13's for all of my playing--orchestral, wind ensemble, WW quintet, big band swing and combo jazz. I have two Bb's--one is always in my double case on which I play a Chicago Kaspar #14, the other in one of my sax cases on which I use a more open custom mouthpiece from my old college clarinet teacher. (I have different sets of reeds for each clarinet) Not to brag, but I have recieved compliments on my sound in all playing venues. Using one clarinet (R13) for all gigs works for me as I really never differenciate between jazz or classical sound, instrument or mpc. Good is good, no matter what the gig.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Birch
Date: 2003-01-18 23:16
I can't say that I've ever found any type of clarinet better for jazz or classical. They have different sounds, and can be used different ways in whatever style. I prefer a narrow bore, because is has punch and that Curly Russel 'tone to curl your hair' sort of appeal.
That said, for a 'real' jazz sound, definitely Albert system is the way to go.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lollypop Stick
Date: 2003-01-19 00:49
I have been playing 'Jazz Clarinet' for some years now and I have used all sorts of instruments, both Albert System and Boehm System, at one time I even went as far as using strenght 5 reeds, my local dealer had a nickname for me then 'Lollypop Stick! you will not believe how many times I have found the perfect combination of instrument, mouthpiece and reed, I could write pages, now I have to admit that my old EJ Albert had the best tone of any clarinet I have owned, a tone throughout the range like a barn door, but sharp at the top, I am now on a metal Selmer Boehm system clarinet, but I am still sticking with my Vandoren 5JB mouthpiece and Vandoren V12 reeds(2-1/2), the real answer of course is experiance. Barney Bigard, Sidney Bechet, Edmund Hall and many other famous clarinet players all played Albert System and I believe that at one point in his career Kenny Davern did. I still use Albert Eb and C clarinets on some gigs. What I have written may not be of help but I hope it's interesting!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2003-01-19 03:03
I play a Buffet and experiment with different mouthpieces and different reeds. Right now I'm using the original mouthpiece that came with the horn which I bought in 1970. But, when I listened to a tape of the last session I played, I felt it sounded "flat" so another change is in order. Trying to find the perfect combination for either "soft jazz" or "loud dixie" has been really frustrating. I bought a new R-13 and then sold it after a few months, as I kept picking up the old horn when it came time to practice and that said alot! It just felt better somehow. It seems to be lighter and smaller. Don't know if that is just my imagination. I miss the movable thumb rest though that the new R13 had. I have never gone beyond a #3 reed. Sometimes I still use a 2-1/2. Makes life interesting that there are so many different items to choose from and also a little crazy-making too.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2003-01-19 06:35
In my not so humble opinion, WJK, I am not confused about the notion of "Jazz clarinet"; there is no such thing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Peter
Date: 2003-01-19 18:47
To use quotes from Dee's and RonB's posts:
While there may be "no such thing" as a "jazz clarinet" in the annals of nomenclature; and while you can play anything you want on any instrument you want to play it on; there is still one true, extenuating factor involved here: "...it seems that jazz players gravitate towards wide bore clarinets (like the old Selmer Balanced Tone) and the classical players gravitate towards the narrow bore (like the R-13)."
Yes, ultimately, the player makes it or breaks it, but once the player has had his turn at it and gone as far as he/she can go, the hardware can give him the extra edge.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-01-19 19:39
Peter wrote:
>
> "...it seems that
> jazz players gravitate towards wide bore clarinets (like the
> old Selmer Balanced Tone)
Except for people like Peanuts Hucko, Buddy DeFranco, Eddie Daniels, Ron Odrich, ...
Perhaps it even depends on the genre.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Robert Small
Date: 2003-01-19 21:00
Alot of great jazz players play small bore horns. But I'm not aware of any well known classical players that use large bore horns.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2003-01-19 22:30
I found classical on a large bore instrument (Leblanc LL and Pete Fountain) a bit less pleasing than on the standard Buffet R-13.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-01-20 00:36
I am primarily a jazz player. I learnt on an old Albert system but now play the Oehler which has basically the same fingering. I use two horns. My main a Yamaha 457-20 Oehler clarinet, they make a 457-18 which is almost an Albert, with a C85 120 Selmer and Rico Royal 3 1/2 reeds and a standard Vandoren master lig. Being a German system clarinet the bore is cylindrical and not large. I use this instrument on plain clarinet gigs and when I play in big bands doubling either Alto or Tenor Sax which are both Selmer Mark VII. I find the double comfortable using the Yamaha. When I play my C melody sax, 1924 Pan American, I keep an F.Arthur Uebel 631 22 key Oehler in the case which is a little wider in the bore than the Yamaha and again cylindrical. This horn produces a lot more volume than the Yamaha and is a little closer in sound to the Albert and handles a wider vibrato. I use a softer set up on this horn with a Pomarico 4 and 2 to 2 1/2 reeds. This horn is a more comfortable double with the C melody. On the rare occassion I do any legit playing on clarinet, I play legit bassoon, I use the Yamaha with the same set up. It is not an orchestral sound but works fine for military band and commercial work. Playing jazz does not necessarily mean playing loud and crass. I think that projection is more important than a "big noise". Projection is gained by practise and experience. Learning to use a mike correctly also takes experience.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: graham
Date: 2003-01-20 08:44
I don't see that the bore dimensions should be particularly important, though I would have thought an R13 or RC for example would be a bit straight laced for jazz. But then so would a 1010. Which great jazz clarinetist (apart from Bilk (?????)) ever played on a 1010? Quite an unsuitable sound for jazz. Gut feeling suggests that a straight (rather than polycylindrical) bore instrument is suitable, which is probably why straight bore 15 mm clarinets predominate in this genre.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2003-01-21 11:42
I think that much of the appeal of the wide-bore clarinets, is the ability to move a lot of air through them and get high volumes. Because so many jazz clarinetists are doubling on saxophone, there has been a tendency to want as free-blowing a clarinet situation as possible.
This is not as much a consideration today, because modern sound systems open up a lot of options. I like my Selmer Centered Tone, but I'll stick with the R-13. Slap on a Portnoy mpc and a clickbarrel, and it's a whole new animal!
I can understand Graham's comment about the R13 seeming stiff, but this may be due to the inflexibility of the average stiff reed/small tip opening classical setup. Most jazz playing requires that the tradeoff between stability and flexiibility lean a bit further towards flexibility.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
