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 ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?
Author: Vytas 
Date:   2003-01-15 19:02

Buffet started marketing the polycylindrical R13 in 1955. Robert Carree's new design included a combination of polycylindrical bore and undercut tone holes. Buffet did not adopt the R-13 designation until 1955. OK, you know the story, but there is one problem with R-13 designation, however.

According to Hugo Schrieber the former President of the Buffet Company. The R-13 was a stock number assigned to the "Buffet, "Professional Model" clarinet by the USA sole importer Carl Fisher as far back as 1936.

There is some evidence that identifies the 22,000 series (1936-1937) Buffet that Ralph McLane played as an R-13.

Buffet catalogs from 1941 –1950 show that the R-13, R-13 1/2, R-14, R-14 1/2, R-16, and the R-16 3/4 were intended as the professional models.

Here's Mr. Francois Kloc Manager of Woodwinds North America Boosey & Hawkes Musical Instruments Inc. comment:
"I have with me an original catalogue from the 50's that present the NEW models of Buffet Crampon clarinets that were distributed at this time by Carl Fisher Musical Instruments CO. Inc. New York 3 NY. The Models numbers are kind of funny and I am not sure one hundred percent, but I think those were made by Carl Fisher and not Buffet for this market I can double check. I give you some example: R13, R13 1/2, R14, R14 1/2, R16, R16 3/4. The 1/2 apparently was used for the clarinet with Eb lever for the R13. The R14 was a clarinet with 17 keys and 7 rings which was a clarinet with the Eb lever + a ring for the third finger to facilitate the G# passages. The R16 was a 19 key 7 Rings clarinet articulated G#, + Eb lever and Forked Bb. The R16 3/4 was a 20 keys 7 rings clarinet With all the feature from the R16 + low Eb key. When I found this catalogue it was the first time I have seen those number. I have seen many Buffet clarinets with Name from cities or stores on it I think it was very common many years ago now the stores put their sticker on the case".
All this info above is not new and can be found on this site.

OK. Now I get it! There is an R-13 and there is an R-13

How to tell an R-13 from an R-13?

If you compare an older instrument from 1954 and newly introduced R-13 you'll some find changes in the key design. THIS NEW KEY DESIGN SIGNIFIES the SWITCH and that's what identifies newly introduced R-13 from the rest of so called R-13 that were made before 1955. With the introduction of the R-13 the throat "A" and "G#" keys got separate posts, the C#/G# key got a needle spring and so on. Mounting of the throat keys is crucial for identification Robert Carree's poly-cylindrical R-13.
But this is not the end of the story. Let's talk about R-13 prototypes that most certainly were made during 1950 and 1955... ..What?... How many cylinders in a poly-cylindrical bore?... Never mind....
______________________________________________________________
This is pure speculation on my part. But some facts suggest that prototypes exist. Without measuring the bore no one can tell.
According to Mr. Moennig, during the 1952-1953 Buffet clarinet the bore design changed for the worse thanks to the great idea of one of the French Engineers. The bore of the lower joint was so large that if made the right hand notes go a quarter-tone sharper in pitch. Bad bore clarinets (39,000 to 41,000) labeled "Academy Model" and sold as student level clarinets.So?

OK.... Now it gets more interesting.

1. According to Mr. Francois Kloc "The Academy model from Buffet is an R13 that came with a little default on the stamp or scratch on the key work or something minor that doesn't affect the instrument but was to expensive at this time to fix. Then they came with the Academy model less expensive than the "regular" R13.The item number was R113. They are often great instruments. Today we could change a key or re-plating keys at lesser cost than before".

than Mr. Francois Kloc wrote:
2. "Robert Caree designed the Poly-cylindrical concept around 1950 then Buffet made what they called the No1 which was a pre R13 with this new bore design and was pitched at 440. The R13 production using R13 name started in 1955. So I can tell you with almost full insurance that your instrument is a Poly cylindrical clarinet N01 which I would compare with the early R13. I hope this help and that it's sound clear to you".

I'm not sure if Mr Francois Kloc has in mind the Academy Model from that era, but the second post indicates that some R-13 prototypes were developed and sold before 1955. Also I'm not sure if those bad bore Academy Models were actually first and unsuccessful attempt to market new poly-cylindrical R13 or just a new Pre R-13 design... and what's No1??? I've seen Academy Models on eBay but never had one in my hands.
________________________________________________________________
HOW TO IDENTIFY ROBERT CARREE'S R-13?

If you shop for an older R-13 on e-Bay or on the web the first thing you want to do is to examine photos of the Upper-Joint:

Make sure that the throat keys "A" and "G#" are mounted on separate posts.

Make sure there is "Made in France" just below the BC inscription. There AREN'T any markings below "Made in France" on a regular R-13.

Serial numbers have NO letter/prefix before the number. Look for serial numbers 50,000 and up. (My research indicates that the number is correct, but I cannot be 100% sure. If the serial number is close to 50,000 just make sure that the throat keys "A" and "G#" are mounted on separate posts. Exception is the "F" before the serial #, which is an indication of a clarinet manufactured for European market and are pitched @A = 442 - 444HZ).

Markings on all section should read "Buffet Crampon & Cie, A Paris, BC, Made in France"

Serial number appears twice on UJ and LJ, but some clarinets were stamped once on the Upper-Joint only (1981). If there is no serial number on the UJ and it appears only on LJ, most likely you have replacement Upper-Joint from the factory. Vytas K.

PS
Can you identify this clarinet? Just don't tell me it's an R-13 coz’ it's NOT and R-13. It's and R-13!... Period!...Right, right... But which one??..1955?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=922129442

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 Topics Author  Date
 ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Vytas 2003-01-15 19:02 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
GBK 2003-01-15 19:35 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Brenda Siewert 2003-01-15 19:47 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Vytas 2003-01-15 19:54 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Douglas 2003-01-15 20:31 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Fred 2003-01-15 20:41 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Synonymous Botch 2003-01-15 20:54 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Vytas 2003-01-15 20:59 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
William 2003-01-15 21:00 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Ken Shaw 2003-01-15 21:21 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
GBK 2003-01-15 21:31 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Vytas 2003-01-15 21:46 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
GBK 2003-01-15 22:00 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Vytas 2003-01-15 22:31 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Bill 2003-01-16 00:18 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Mark Charette 2003-01-16 00:19 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Bill 2003-01-16 00:27 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Mark Charette 2003-01-16 00:37 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
David Spiegelthal 2003-01-16 00:54 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
jbutler 2003-01-16 01:09 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Bill 2003-01-16 01:33 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
madvax 2003-01-16 01:52 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Wayne Thompson 2003-01-16 03:03 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Vytas 2003-01-16 03:40 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Jack Kissinger 2003-01-16 04:54 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Ken 2003-01-16 12:54 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Douglas 2003-01-16 14:04 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Hank 2003-01-16 14:30 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Douglas 2003-01-16 15:20 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Mark Charette 2003-01-16 17:28 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Ken Shaw 2003-01-16 17:55 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Mark P. Jasuta 2003-01-17 15:10 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Vytas 2003-01-17 23:33 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Mark P. Jasuta 2003-01-18 02:37 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Vytas 2003-01-18 05:06 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Vytas 2003-01-18 14:42 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Rob 2003-01-18 15:59 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Hank 2003-01-18 20:33 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Mark P. Jasuta 2003-01-19 00:55 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
David Pegel 2003-01-19 19:21 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Vytas 2003-01-19 23:29 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Mark P. Jasuta 2003-01-20 14:13 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Vytas 2003-01-20 16:48 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Mark P. Jasuta 2003-01-21 03:10 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
lyle a 2004-10-11 04:07 
 RE: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
jim lande 2003-02-17 19:11 
 Re: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Avie 2004-02-15 23:39 
 Re: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
BobD 2004-10-11 14:58 
 Re: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Lennyclarinet26 2010-10-16 20:41 
 Re: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Barry Vincent 2010-10-16 21:50 
 Re: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Vytas 2010-10-17 02:03 
 Re: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
William 2010-10-17 16:20 
 Re: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
JJAlbrecht 2010-10-18 02:45 
 Re: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
David Spiegelthal 2010-10-18 02:41 
 Re: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
Ken Shaw 2010-10-18 12:45 
 Re: ? I thought an R-13 was an R-13 ?  new
CocoboloKid 2010-10-18 15:02 


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