 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Fons
Date: 2003-01-12 23:41
What is the general procedure for fixing a crack? I see people mentioning pinning, and I've heard someone else say bathing it or something like that.
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Author: Simon
Date: 2003-01-13 02:02
Fons,
If you are not a tech and are serious about your horn I would take it to an experienced tech.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-01-13 02:28
GBK's First Axiom (with apologies to Disraeli):
"People who love the making of fresh sausage, and getting their cracked clarinet pinned, should never watch either process being done" ...GBK
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2003-01-13 23:05
Fons,
It really depends on the type of crack on how to repair. There are also different opinions on which type is best, etc. Graphite "banding" with epoxy is the latest craze. There are they other standard methods of using threaded rod (pinning) and shrinking a nickel silver band around the outside diameter of the clarinet body (flush banding). There are not too many techs who still flush band. Surface cracks are usually filled with material such as grenadilla chips and cyanacrylate (super glue), epoxy, or as simple as bee's wax. However, I've never heard of bathing a clarinet to fix a crack. Techs generally deal with cracks when they are in the "closed" state.
jbutler
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-01-14 03:24
Fons, there are at least five ways to deal with a crack:
1) Fill it with some non-glue substance (beeswax is mentioned).
2) Use a strong adhesive to hold the crack edges together.
3) Use a threaded device to hold the crack edges together (pinning).
4) Shrink a continuous strap around the Clarinet to hold the edges together (banding).
5) Discard the joint and replace it with a new one, or replace the Clarinet.
1 is obviously not much help, but 2 can be useful for small cracks. 3 and 4 may be used in conjunction with 2. As cracks are generally caused by the relief of stress in the wood, some believe that 4 may be better than 3, because 4 prevents the wood from relieving stress in some other place. I have seen a clarinet pinned at one longitude which later cracked at another. 5 is a poor solution. Although some players simply believe that a repaired crack is no good, that is not necessarily true. A joint with a properly repaired crack should hold up and play just as well as a new one. A crack through a tone hole may, however, require rather heroic repair efforts (a tone-hole chimney, or such).
Note to GBK: I have made sausage which was quiite good, but I have never repaired a serious Clarinet crack (and don't intend to, either). This is one of the Clarinet repairs best left to an *excellent* experienced technician. And please, GBK, do not apologize to Disraeli. Queen Victoria didn't, and they got along famously.
Regards,
Joh
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Author: Jim A
Date: 2003-01-15 02:26
I fixed the crack in the barrel of my wife's clarinet with plastic electrician's tape. Although it has had little use, it is still holding fine. Probably not a recommended repair, however.
Jim
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Author: Ratanapol
Date: 2006-10-12 07:46
JMcAulay ,
So I would like to ask, in which case the crack cannot repair and have to replace it (or better to replace than to repair it).
Thanks
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-12 11:35
If the crack has gone from the top of the tenon, right through to the bore and doesn't terminate at a tonehole (so it can still spread further), that's when a transplant is done.
Cracks that run into a tonehole will usually spread no further as the tonehole stops the crack spreading (as long as the grain is straight) - but sometimes if the grain is twisty the crack can run into a tonehole at the surface, but the underlying grain may not enter the tonehole so the crack can spread.
Sometimes a crack that's spreading down the joint and not running towards or into a tonehole can be stopped by drilling a blind hole into the wood at the base of the crack (or a little way further down) to stop it spreading any further. Or putting a piercing saw cut across the body at the base of the crack - the walls of a clarinet joint are much thicker than you think they are so there's very little risk of drilling or sawing through to the bore. In each case the crack and any holes or saw cuts will be filled.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2006-10-12 13:51
1.Take off keys if necessary
2.Clean the glueing surface with alcohol/xylene and water with fine brush
and let it dry completely (wait at least an hour before glueing)
3.Devise somekind of clamping i.e.,small clamps or rubber band or nylon threads
4.Run "Krazy glue".Use as little as possible and wipe off any extra glue on the inside and out side surface immediately.
5.Clean(remove) any hardened glue using a gouge/needle file/sand paper etc.
6.If filling is needed make a grenadilla dust with #0 cut file and mix with Krazy glue with spatula well and apply them as FAST as you can within a 2-3 seconds at most.
7.Shape it using chisel/knife/file/sand paper
.......
#2and #4 are the most important steps
If you're not experienced try on srape wood first
If properly done,it'll be very strong bond even without any pinning.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-12 14:29
"6.If filling is needed make a grenadilla dust with #0 cut file and mix with Krazy glue with spatula well and apply them as FAST as you can within a 2-3 seconds at most."
Easier way to do this is to apply the superglue to the crack then sprinkle with wood dust, then apply some more superglue and let it go off, then paper it all up with 400, 800 and 1200 grit wrapped around a flat file to get a smooth finish, and buff it to match the rest of the joint.
Probably best to scratch the line of the crack deeper with a sharp scriber to give it more depth so the glue can take better.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-10-12 15:08
Over quite a few years, I've had, or seen, a number of wood cls with crack repair, banded/pinned/glued, which I "felt" were quite satisfactory, but was always a bit "uncomfortable" with them. I also have used beeswax and a thin strip of black elect tape, on barrels in partic., but wondered if there might be leakage from the socket ends, unless a bit of glue, or heavy cork grease/beeswax was used. Am contemplating repair of a good Selmer-Paris barrel, "as we speak". AM thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-12 15:27
If you do have cracks running into sockets, the thinnest superglue will run into these and seal them up.
But with barrels, the socket rings will hold the lot nice and tight, as long as the rings themselves are nice and tight.
I generally avoid flush banded clarinets like the plague.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: b.roke
Date: 2006-10-12 20:52
Chris - what are you calling "superglue"?
steadfastness stands higher than any success
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-12 21:50
Superglue is a trade name for cyrano de bergerac glue.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-12 21:56
Cyanoacrylate.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: frank
Date: 2006-10-12 22:04
Depends on what kind of crack it it. Most can be repaired nowadays with super glue.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-10-13 04:14
To apply the grenadilla dust (over the unset superglue), I often use one of those gadgets a dentist uses to 'squirt' amalgam, under pressure, into a prepared tooth cavity. Like a specialised syringe... load it with dust, then force it out through about a 2 mm nozzle.
This compresses the otherwise floury dust. I then add more non-viscous superglue, and repeat the process until the result is proud of the surface of the instrument.
Then trim/sand/polish for a good cosmetic result.
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-10-13 06:32
I just had a crack pinned on my 38 yo Buffet (who says older instruments don't crack!). I actually had done crack-pinning a long time ago, but I feel it's one of those repairs that really requires a fair amount of practice to maintain proficiency-why I generally don't recommend non-techs attempt it. Pinning isn't terribly expensive and the result is incredible as its hardly noticeable unless you know what to look for.
One word of opinionated advice...it might be wise to have a tech who specializes in oboes work on your instrument if you really prize it...they do a huge number of pinning in their work and are generally brilliant (and quick) with it.
-Randy
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-10-13 12:16
Interesting.
I do a fair bit of oboe servicing work along with the other woodwinds, and have pinned quite a few clarinets, but I don't think I have ever come across a split oboe where I am.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-13 12:22
Same here - and I'm surrounded by oboes - I've only ever pinned split clarinets!
Though the oboes that have split within their guarantee period will have a top joint transplant (a new top joint) rather than having it pinned.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-10-13 12:25)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-10-13 21:51
I haven't pinned or banded any clarinets but have used threaded piinning rod to stabilize cracks in various wood products...it works great.
Something not said above is that "pinning" doesn't close a crack rather...hopefully....it prevents the crack from progressing further.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Avie
Date: 2006-10-14 13:11
Is it better to pin a clarinet crack in the closed or open position? It has been said that a closed crack is more apt to cause stress and crack in other area's later on, or would it safer to pin and fill it in the open position which is less likely to cause stress and cracks in other areas? Gordan....Anybody?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-14 13:27
I normally let the crack close up and then pin it - but mark the crack with a pencil or with chalk before it closes up so you know where it runs once it's closed as some cracks can close up completely and leave no evidence.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-10-15 05:36
I generally pin a crack how I find it - still open quite a few hours after playing.
I am actually surprised that pins work as well as they do. After all, the location where a pin crosses the split is actually quite deep in the timber, close to the bore, so its stabilising effect near the OUTSIDE of the timber surely must be precarious.
Therefore I would prefer to have the timber in a state where stresses are relatively relieved before I pin. The down side of this is that there is POSSIBLY a tendency for a slight tear drop cross-section of the bore. It also means that there may be some slight lengthening needed for pivot tubes to fit snug between displaced posts, although I seldom find this necessary.
There are a variety of different approaches to quite a few different aspects of the pinning procedure. If the result is good, long-term, then the method is OK.
Post Edited (2006-10-15 21:45)
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