 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2003-01-13 15:34
Hi all,
I just thought I would report my experience with HAT's lesson in the mail. I sent 2 excerpts of my playing, the cadenza of copland's concerto and Hommage a De Falla by Kovacs, asking for general advice about my playing and specific comments for those 2 pieces, about 8 minutes worth of material. HAT, sent back a CD a few weeks later. 30 mn of lesson on the Copland, 15 mn on the Kovacs a 15 mn exercise on articulation plus two pieces he recorded for me to enjoy.
His comments were very helpful. He gave technical tips, interpretation ideas with examples played by him and general comments on my overall playing. His ideas on the Copland were especially insightful, the exercise on staccato is also quite good.
I don't think he was on his best playing day but the ideas came through just fine. One big advantage is the fact that you keep a recorded lessons on CD that you can go back to if you feel that you've lost your groove ;->
I will most likely send him more stuff in the future and this time pay for it. I believe he charges $30 per hour. I should add that my past and current teachers (Larry Maxey, U of Kansas and Bob Crowley, Montreal Symphony) are quite good so I know what a good lesson is and this was definitely a good one.
I am curious to hear what others have to say,
Good clarineting to all of you,
-Sylvain
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Author: ginny
Date: 2003-01-13 17:50
That sounds interesting, particularly for a second opinion.
How's it work, I'd like to get more input for my son and his duet partner.
Ginny
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2003-01-13 17:58
Contact David Hattner at HatNYC62@aol.com
-Sylvain
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Author: S
Date: 2003-01-13 18:31
Sylvain,
I am clarinet student in Montreal, can you email me at the yahoo address to discourse re:clarinet teachers in montreal?
S
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Author: William
Date: 2003-01-13 19:20
Hmmmm, perhaps HAT should consider becoming a Sneezy Sponser if he is going to be allowed to sell lessons via this BB. No doubt his professional advice is worth every penny, judging from a not-too-long-ago "sound byt" posting in which he provided of some "clickable" excerpts of his playing. Pretty smooth technique--and, his advisory cyberpostings are always interesting and "right on." But, if he is allowed to sell lessons via this BB, why shouldn't other people also be allowed to sell their products without "donating to the cause" via official sponsership. Just wpondering if "fair shouldn't always be fair."
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Author: CC
Date: 2003-01-13 19:36
I agree with William above...
Even though today's posting came from someone else, the original and follow-up postings from hat about this venture come close to self-promotion. Even if hat's offering's are worth every penny, there are MANY other clarinet players/teachers, many who frequent this BB and are listed on the site as teachers, whose advice is also worth every penny. Offering teaching services, even if free to begin, could be considered an ad and self-promotion setting yourself up as an expert.
None of this is to imply that the words of advice are not good and helpful.
For Ginny above:
Second opinions can be found from many teachers listed on this site in the teacher's section. Many people in that area are very helpful for free and many of them make a part of their living giving that help.
CC
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Author: CC
Date: 2003-01-13 20:03
I agree totally with bob gardner comment , too.
Just wanting to acknowledge that there are many people here available for opinions, second opinions, lessons one on one, group, real, "virtual," free, inexpensive, expensive, etc., etc...
Not all are willing to "toot their own horns" here...
CC
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-01-13 20:16
From what I read, HAT's original concept was an experiment. He didn't promote himself on the BB. But I agree, it is Mark's call.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2003-01-13 20:33
Ok,
I see my post as a report on whatever HAT sent me. He launched an experiment to see if lessons in the mail are any good for a student and for him as a musician who needs money to live and who might even like teaching.
I don't know HAT personally, only through this board and the lesson. I happened to like the experience and thought it would be nice to share. Just as I did for the Chadash Hill mouthpiece blank, my vandoren M15, my greenline buffet clarinet, the doctor's product or any product service that I think is worth buying.
I don't have anything bad to say about the lesson in the mail except the obvious fact that HAT can't see me so has no idea about my embouchure, my finger position or body posture. If it brings business to HAT then I'm happy for him, he's spent enough time on this board giving advice for free.
I certainly wish I did have nasty comments to make, this post would not be seen as an advertisment and I would have made this post much more exciting. Something along the lines of how bad the Vandoren reeds have become, or how much I dislike Stolzman's recordings.
I wish the few others who did the experiment would share their ideas too. Maybe we would get a more balanced opinion.
Best to all,
-Sylvain
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-01-13 20:47
David didn't do any promotion here; Sylvain was doing what many do here for mouthpieces, repairs, accessories, whatnot - reporting on her experiences with someone, whether sponsor or not. David offered this a while back in a discreet way (as an offer for an experiment via email). Perfectly within bounds.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2003-01-13 20:56
Mark wrote:
"reporting on her experiences with someone, whether sponsor or not."
Just a side note:
Sylvain is a french masculin name, the closest equivalent in english would probably be Sylvester. I definitely have no desire to change name and be called Sly...
I still wish we would get feedback from other "lesson in the mail" "experimenters", come on don't be shy ;->
-S
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Author: HAT
Date: 2003-01-13 21:08
Just for the record, there was only one other.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-01-13 23:09
Sylvain wrote:
> Just a side note:
> Sylvain is a french masculin name, the closest equivalent in
> english would probably be Sylvester. I definitely have no
> desire to change name and be called Sly...
My apologies. That's what happens when you don't get to see people face-to-face.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2003-01-14 00:03
No worries it happens all the time, although with a bit of french blood in yours I was expecting better from you Mark =:-))
Cheers,
-Sylvain
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Author: dennis
Date: 2003-01-14 00:21
Horray for Hat. Yes, it was Marks'call but it was Hat who made the tremendous (FREE OF CHARGE) gesture....unselfish, unserving, and truly magnanimous. For those who bothered to read the original 10/30/02 post, Mark then had an opportunity to retract Hat's posting......but did not.
Had I been anywhere near my playing standards/abilities of 25/30 yrs ago, I, too, would have jumped on Hat's offer.
How many of the 'complaining' audience have sent (or wish they could) a mouthpiece or even a clarinet to an appropriate service provider for gratis and didn't bother to post their delight.
How many pay a substantial sum of $$$ just to attend a Master Class and not even get to perform. For the ones who do get to perform, they do a 3 minute performance followed by a maybe 5 minute critique. Then, the 'listeners' walk away expounding on how that was the best $25 or whatever they ever spent.
For whatever reason(s), some people find the need to read into free offers and then expound upon the 'illegality/infringement' of the offer or upon WOODWIND.ORG's policy. Does this posture partly arise from the connotation that a Lesson should be/has to be, a paid service.
In the mid/late 60's, when I and others were paying Russianoff $75/hr for a weekly lesson, was that highway robbery ? Here, we have a renowned, respected clarinetist make a gracious offer (no $$$$ attached) and people scream. Far too often, we have and fall victim to the 'other side of the coin'.... we come across people who have their hands in our pockets and then complain about it.
Further, Hat, initially humbly mentioned his reservation of self promotion and left it up to Mark.
On a personal note, I've experienced the shun of symphony players.It was their attitude, not me. One, was so wrapped up in himself all he could talk about was(and directed the conversations to) himself. Another, admittedd he was not (and didn't care to be)an "equipment man" but rather just wanted to play rehearsals and performances, and give young stundent lessons for $17/half hour.
Perhaps ostrich's aren't the only ones with their heads in the sand.
regards,
dennis
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-01-14 03:19
Personally, I find HAT's experiment(s) very informative as well as interesting. Occasionally someone will ask me to try to troubleshoot something over the phone. I gets kinda tricky, if not impossible for me at times, and any information on doing things like that 'long distance' is a big help - like explaining something without using hand gestures. I appreciate David's willingness to privide his time and resources to this endeavor. To most of us it probably makes no difference. To others, like myself, it's a huge fringe benefit and I thank him for it.
My hat's off to you, David, for your unselfish voluntary efforts. And to Mark C. for the means he's provided to help educate some of us - or, at least try
- ron b -
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Author: Kenwrick
Date: 2003-01-14 23:27
Ah, I guess I can speak a bit on this one since I'm the negligent bum who meant to give feedback but got sidetracked by work issues.
I didn't send HAT a cd of my playing to comment on. I did the reverse, I asked him to comment on his approach to learning a particular piece. I wasn't sure when I'd be able to get back to him right away so I choose standard stuff – a couple of the Rose 32. I chose a couple of slow ones and number 30 since I wanted to work on getting a clean, light, staccato (who doesn't).
I work for a University in instructional computing in my real job, with "distance learning" being one of my areas. So I was really curious to see how well this would work pedagogically.
I can tell you without reservation that what I got from David far exceeded whatever expectations I had for the "experiment". HAT spent a considerable amount of time isolating key technical problems for each etude and discussed and demonstrated approaches to dealing with each situation. A second pass dealt with specifically with phrasing and musicality issues inherent in each etude. The final pass was a play through of the whole etude linking all the concepts together.
You know when you're in school there as just some concepts that take time to make sense, like a composer wanting to limit their compositions to a tone row because that limitation allows them to be creative. This experiment is a little bit like that. It's pretty easy to make the assumption that the lack of an instructor in the room is a limiting factor. What I got from HAT, which I would be hard pressed to get in a face to face lesson is the amount of time spend thinking about how to approach a problem prior to tackling the problem. There is rarely time for this self reflection within the context of the lesson, but it's probably more important than the face to face lesson or the feedback that you get in a face to face lesson.
Would it experiment work well with other instructors - maybe? It’s like the composer and preference for composing in a tone row framework. It works well with HAT.
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Author: HAT
Date: 2003-01-15 15:00
Thank you, Sylvain and Kenwrick for the kind words. And also to Mark Charette for letting me skate on this one.
As for the critics, you didn't leave your names. Why?
HATTNER
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Author: William
Date: 2003-01-15 18:05
Hat--I left my name and my email address, as I always do in all of my postings. And for anyone keeping records, I was not questioning the concept or quality of your offer, nor your professional talents as a musician. It just seemed to me that your "experiment" was venturing a bit too much on "self promotion" for potential future profit to be completely fair to others who pay to promote their products and services as Sponsers. However, as Mark has given his approval, that is good enough for me, so I will cybersign off of this issue wishing you good luck and lots of success. Hopefully, the presidence set here will not rear it's head in the future.
Thank you,
William Fuller, Clarinetist
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-01-15 18:29
William wrote:
> Hopefully, the
> presidence set here will not rear it's head in the future.
What precedent? If you go back and read Dave's offer, there was no mention of money or anything, just an offer of an experiment. Take it or leave it.
The precedent of people talking about their services and products is well established here, and no differentiation is made in my mind between sponsors & non-sponsors (meaning both must adhere to a fine line).
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