 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wjk
Date: 2003-01-11 21:18
Who do you feel are the most underappreciated jazz clarinetists?
I'd name Tony Scott and possibly Buddy DeFranco. Any votes for Jimmy Guiffre?
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-01-11 22:17
Many or most of the players in both ount Basie's and Duke Ellington's bands were also very good clarinettists. Some of the early Ellington bands from the period 1915 to the early 1930's feature some excellent jazz clarinet work both in section playing and soloing. Harry Carney was an excellent clarinettist and bass clarinettist. Johnny Hodges and later Russell Procope were all capable soloists as was Jimmy Noone. From the Basie stable Lester Young has been recorded on clarinet, as have Buddy Tate and Herschel Evans. The clarinet solo's on many Basie samll group sessions are by Don Byas; interestingly it was the tenor players in this band that did the bulk of the clarinet work whereas it is normally part of the alto players responsibility. It is also relevant to note that the majority of these players playes Albert system instruments with very soft reeds. It is also pertinent to remember Woody Herman's recordings such as the Golden Wedding, Woodchoppers Ball etc.. In addition to his soprano sax offerings Sidney Bechet (Albert) was an extremely emotive clarinettist and from a similar era it is difficult to discount Milton 'Mezz' Mezzrow (Albert system again) who in addition to the C melody, often wrongly cited as alto sax, was a fine traditional clarinettist. Alongside Louis Armstrong and Trummy Young in the frontline of Armstrongs revival band was Edmond Hall (another ALbert man) on clarinet. For sheer commercial precision it is also hard to overlook Jimmy Dorsey who prior to his own orchestra's recorded with Bix Biederbecke et. al.. It is difficult to list everyone. Wide listening and reading will reveal more. It is easy to be clouded by the commercial recordings of Artie Shaw and Benny Goodman and to believe that they were in any way representative of what was going on in live music. There is debate, especially concerning Goodman, as to whether he plays jazz at all. There are plenty of contemporary jazz clarinettists out there as well both good and bad.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-01-11 22:46
From Mark's very comphrehensive review, it is obvious that there are a lot of clarinetists "out there" that have not gotten the recgnition they were due. My personal (local) favorite is Chuck Hedges, Chicago born clarinetist, whom most of you have probably never heard of, but he is as good as any jazz clarinetist, anywhere, in my book. He fronts his own combos regularily during Jazz at Five at Andy's in Chicago and on Thurday and Friday evenings at a night club in Milwaukee near the airport. Just another name for what will probably be a long list of clarinetists who deserve more recognition for their talent.
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Author: Frank
Date: 2003-01-11 23:52
Ken Peplowski is a big favorite of mine....I especially like the duo CD with Howard Alden on guitar
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Author: Guido
Date: 2003-01-12 00:08
Yes, indeed. Sign me on as blown away by Ken Peplowski. The man makes a clarinet into a living entity. And he is as relaxed on stage as Bill Clinton (grin here). Plays a pretty fine sax, too!
I'd like to hear more about Chuck Hedges, as I have one of his discarded clarinets. (And I be not worthy of such ownership)
Are there CD's or radio spots I can find on the web about Chuck?
Guido
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-01-12 00:32
Mark said: "There is debate, especially concerning Goodman, as to whether he plays jazz at all."
Ouch!! I was just listening to some of his sextet sides and I can't see how you *wouldn't* call that jazz (or any of the other small groups for that matter)! I think the majority of his big band work could be called jazz, too. Into the 50's-60's he started repeating himself a lot and seemed to go into "auto pilot," but are we going to judge all his work by one decade? I thought the "does he really play jazz?" debate always seemed to revolve more around the Glenn Miller Orch and such.
I agree on most other points, especially about Harry Carney! A few days ago I was listening to some of his clarinet playing on the OKeh Ellington, and he does a great job, especially for playing bari sax as his main instrument. I still prefer him on bari, however. I'd read that he was a huge fan of Adrian Rollini, and you can hear it so much in his tone and phrasing, but he managed to still have his own distinctive sound.
Anyway, Don Murray played some good stuff with Bix, and Larry Shields was one of the highlights of the ODJB. It seems that among most jazz musicians of the day, he was favored over the leader (LaRocca)!
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2003-01-12 00:42
Present day?
Andrew Firth - Australia. Was a featured artist at the ICA Oklahoma convention a couple of years back. Heard him again while in Australia a year or so ago.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Birch
Date: 2003-01-12 07:07
Cecil Scott!!! He recorded some great stuff with Willie "the Lion" Smith. Also Alphonse Picou, who recorded some great stuff with Teddy Wilson.
Whatever you want to say about Benny, the guy could swing like a @!#$, as they used to say, and he could play one hell of a clarinet. You may be able to debate whether pretty much anything recorded since Be-Bop is "jazz", but there's no question that the Benny Goodman Sextet, with Charlie Christian and Cootie Williams and Count Bassie and Gene Croupa et al, and yes even Benny himself, was "jazz".
We all have our opinions.
--Birch
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Author: Martin
Date: 2003-01-12 13:27
Let's add Kenny Davern to that list, a clarinetist that can still be heard live! Peewee Russell, Irving Fazola and Albert Nicholas for three who are gone. These fellows truly convey an emotion in there playing that is missing in some jazz players.
Martin
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Author: Bryan
Date: 2003-01-12 14:53
Listening to Pee Wee Russell was an inspiration for me to start playing clarinet.
Probably the list of underappreciated players is longer than the list of those who have really got their due.
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-01-12 17:21
What Riverwalk shows was Chuck Hedges on? I clicked the link, but it didn't say at the bottom which shows he'd been on. I listen to Riverwalk a lot, so I might have heard him before . . .
I second the Pee Wee Russel motion! :-) I didn't mention him before, though, as I didn't really think he was that underappreciated. I guess he's not as big of a name among non-jazz fans, though, like some of the other guys (such as Goodman, Shaw, and Herman) are.
Frank Teschemacher, anyone? His tone is a little funky sometimes, but it was because he was going for quarter tones and such. I think he was a very creative jazz player and considering he was one of the original Austin High Gang, he was always surrounded by other good musicians.
Birch,
It's nice to see someone back me up on Benny! :-D Have you heard his early work with Jack Teagarden on BG and Big Tea in NYC? It's a really great CD . . . I find myself listening to it a lot!
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Author: Bryan
Date: 2003-01-12 19:00
Yeah, Teschemacher was good--according to legend his live playing was far superior to his recordings (but that was often true in the early days of recorded jazz), and he'd probably be better known today if he'd left more of a recorded legacy. Actually I wish somebody like JSP or Mosaic would do a complete reissue.
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Author: Ken
Date: 2003-01-12 20:18
Harold Cooper on the Dixie and jazz bassist Bob Mintzer.
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Author: Jean
Date: 2003-01-12 23:30
As a music historian here is my take on Benny.
I think Benny is given a bad rap for a number of reasons. First of all a lot of people have a problem with Benny's personality quirks..he could be a cheapskate, he was often rude, didn't know his musicians, etc. He also suffered from severe sciatica which made him 4F in WWII. Apparently he was in constant pain. I have had it...sciatica pain would turn Mr. Rodgers into an SOB.
You also have to give the man credit for breaking the color barrier. Apparently he himself was concerned how fans would feel when he played with black musicians. But think about his childhood..growing up Jewish and dirt poor in a lousy neighborhood in Chicago. He certainly faced a lot of prejudice. (As did Artie Shaw as a youngster growing up in Connecticut.) I doubt any of us can understand what Goodman's childhood was like unless you have read any of the bios.
Goodman always looked so clean-cut. I look at photos and think , "Benny looks like an accountant." Just because a jazz musician isn't shooting up heroin and dying young it doesn't mean the guy can't play. Most people associate Goodman only with swing. Swing was a form of jazz. Listen to the quintet recordings.
Goodman went the classical route in later years and you've got to admire anyone who was still playing scales the day he died. Heck, we should all be so dedicated to the fundamentals of playing. So much of what I have read about Benny is personally negative, but I don't let that cloud my judgement. So, yes, in my opinion he could play jazz.
Jean Adler
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Author: ed
Date: 2003-01-13 00:16
Two contemporary players- Frank Glover from Indianapolis who played at the New Orleans clarinetfest and Brad Terry from Maine. Both are very fine players.
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-01-13 00:24
A lot of Benny's kinder actions seem not to have made the history books as readily . . . On another board (a jazz one) I post to frequently, we're discussing BG, and recently we've been pointing out all the *nice* things he did! For instance, he sometimes invited his newer sidemen to have lunch/dinner with him and just chat with them and get them acclimated to life on the road. He basically got Hamp and James off the ground financially when they went off to make their own bands. Hamp saved a percentage of his money to repay Goodman with, but Benny refused it, saying it was Hamp's money and he had earned it. Although you usually hear about the stress between BG and Gene Krupa, from any accounts I'd read, the two got along pretty well when they weren't fighting for the spotlight. Also, Benny gave Gene his old job back when no one would hire him after he was let out of jail.
So, there were plenty of nice things the guy did, as well. Alas, this thread is about musicianship, so I guess I'll just restate that Benny Goodman one was of the best jazz clarinetists out there. As Jean said, swing is jazz. It's that sub-genre after trad but before bebop.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2003-01-13 02:46
How about:
Walt Levinsky
Phil Bodner
Walt Weiskopf
Ron Odrich
Dan Block
Dave Tarras
Ray Musiker
Naftule Brandwein
Eddie Daniels
Dave Tofani
Paquito D'Rivera
Kenny Davern
Jimmy Giuffre
Michael "Peanuts" Hucko
Dave Krakauer
Ted Nash
Gerry Niewood
Charlie Pillow
Ken Peplowski
Bob Wilber
Sol Yaged
Evan Ziporyn
All great jazzers from the NYC scene!
Happy New Year,
JJM
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Author: Kat
Date: 2003-01-13 03:45
Yeah, John,
Ziporyn is fabulous...I heard parts of "This is not a Clarinet" (or some such album title) and man-o-man...I can't imagine where that comes from or how he does it!
The only guy currently playing in NYC I've heard is Chris Speed. He blows me away! Fabulous stuff!!! Phenomenal sound, and (you won't be surprised if you've read my posts before) he plays a mean Balkan-style type of thing with Slavic Soul Party!
Eddie Daniels has never been one of my favorites...Not that I don't appreciate his playing...just don't like much of the rep and style he's got...
And I really appreciate your including Klez greats on the list...
Now for my fave "ethnic jazz" player: Ivo Papazov!!!! Talk about a monster! And he was really sweet when I met him in Chicago last October too.
Katrina
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Author: Birch
Date: 2003-01-13 05:57
Two more points on Benny: he didn't show up for Gene Krupa's funeral. I heard that Krupa's funeral consisted of a huge concert in Central Park (or some such place?) that he was supposed to play at before he died, and many thousands of people turned out, but not Benny.
On the subject of racial integration, note that the only black musicians Benny played with were stars. The rank and file of his orchestra were all white.
Okay, three: Tony Scott told me a story about his good friend Billie Holiday. He once found out about an affair between Benny and Billie, and curiosity (and perhaps a bit of Tony's sicilian competitive spirit) drew him to ask her how he was is bed. Much to his surprise, she said "fantastic!"
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Author: Michael Blinn
Date: 2003-01-13 06:22
To Birch:
You are kidding right? Benny Goodman and Billie Holiday had an affair? That's quite a claim to make. I'll bet the National Inquirer would pay quite a lot for that story, even sixty years on.
Mike Blinn
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2003-01-13 13:50
I second the nomination of Paquito d'Rivera -- a wonderful clarinetist who's equally at home playing Latin jazz or classical --he's also written some nice 'legit' pieces -- our clarinet choir is playing one of his works. A complete gentleman and terrific musician (I believe his clarinet playing is superior to the alto sax work for which he's better known).
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Author: Bob
Date: 2003-01-13 14:59
Well, you would have had to have known Benny's wife to understand some of his ways....
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Author: Jean
Date: 2003-01-13 15:43
A friend loaned me an interesting cd called Clarinet Marmelade that included many of the lesser known jazz clarinetists. Don't know who "manufactured" this cd but it was very enjoyable.
Jean
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Author: William
Date: 2003-01-13 16:47
I would also respectively add the name of local Madison, WI jazz great, Earl "Smitty" Smith who played for years with the Doc DeHaven Combo. (Doc was once invited to join Jack Teagardens group, but declined) Smitty played dixie style on his old, often repaired, multi-brand name Albert system clarinet (when a joint became unsusable, he just repa=laced it with the first available part) and, to paraphrase, "never played a note I didn't like." Just another example of the multitude of great clarinetists "out there" that you probably never heard of--but perhaps, should have!!
RIP, Smitty, and thanks!!
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2003-01-13 19:53
Big second on Irving Fazzola. An amazing player, despite what I understand was an amazingly awful personality.
Gary Gray.
Bill (William O.) Smith.
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Author: Ted
Date: 2003-01-13 20:55
I am surprised Dick Johnson's name hasn't appeared yet. He's fantastic!
Also, the late great bari player Nick Brignola was amazing. He showed up at a clarinet summit concert onetime, and when he walked onstage the guys thought "we'll show this bari player". They walked away wondering what hit them.
Also, Eric Dolphy on bass cl. was in a class by himself.
Anthony Braxton..... well I stiil am trying to figure him out, but he needs a mention here.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-01-13 22:51
I would also like to note that John Moses forgot to mention one prominent NYC clarinetist, namely, John Moses. Just got to keep the record current..............
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-01-14 00:56
To Birch: I remember reading that Benny was a pall bearer at Gene Krupa's funeral . . . I would consider that "showing up!"
Anyway, Paquito d'Rivera is quite good! He's not one of the first guys who comes to mind when I think of my favorites, but I do enjoy his music.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-01-14 12:21
You all forgot Hubert Rostaing. Played with Django and Grapelli in the Hot Club de France.
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Author: sherrietanner
Date: 2004-03-16 06:44
Hello, Check out the New York Times March 15th article on Sol Yaged! "Has Clarinet, Will Swing Till The Wee Hours", My dad remembers him from the Gaslight Club in NYC and thought he was pretty good. Nice piece for us. Get it with Google and search Sol Yaged in the news. Bye,
Sherrie
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Author: Vrat
Date: 2004-03-16 16:14
No one mentioned Don Byron yet. Not that I like him too much, but he belongs on the list. Although I am not sure how 'underappreciated' he is...
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-03-16 18:06
In one sense almost all jazz clarinetists are "underappreciated." Jazz is almost as much a subculture in the clarinet world as classical music is in the saxophone world, and the clarinet is only really beginning to come back into favor with the arbiters of jazz.
Among New York players, I want to put in a word for my pal Dan Levinson, a classic (he'd hate being called "trad") jazz virtuoso who over the past 10 years or so has really made his mark in a school of jazz not exactly hungering for fresh talent.
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-03-17 03:09
""Some of the early Ellington bands from the period 1915 to the early 1930's feature some excellent jazz clarinet work ""
Mark - does Barney Bigard fit in to your list?
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2004-03-17 10:29
No one's mentioned John LaPorta. It's interesting that someone of Phil Woods' stature would be overlooked. Yes, I mean Phil on clarinet.
I'm happy that John included Walt Levinsky. He's one of my heros!
Danny Banks needs to be added to the list. I've never heard anyone who had such a huge sound on bass clarinet as Danny. I'll also toss in Tim Price's name. Tim does some beautiful work on clarinet.
I know that as soon as I post this message other names will come to mind. ha ha ha
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Author: bkmorton
Date: 2004-03-17 13:20
You know that Larry Combs plays a mean jazz clarinet. I got to hear him at the OHIO clarinet convention playing with Eddie Daniels.
Really all jazz clarinetist don't get enough attention. We need more Benny Goodman and Artie Shaw big bands out there. It all started there
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Author: Anders
Date: 2004-03-17 19:19
Amazed that no one mentioned Jimmy Hamilton! His playing on "Cottontail" is pretty wonderful. Buster Bailey. Saw Kenny Davern but not Bob Wilbur (unless that's "me"). How about Omar Simeon (heard an NPR show devoted to him some years back)? From Brazil, Paolo Maura.
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-03-17 23:21
""Really all jazz clarinetist don't get enough attention. We need more Benny Goodman and Artie Shaw big bands out there. It all started there""
Correction bkmorton - it all started in New Orleans actually, by black musicians, not by white swing bands. There's no argument, this is a fact.
As far as big band jazz is concerned, the Goodman and Shaw bands just capitalised on the start made by the likes of Duke Ellington, Don Redman and Fletcher Henderson....to name just a few.
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-03-19 13:48
We need more big bands of every kind. Unfortunately, it's the kind of music where many more people want to play than want to pay.
Oh. And. Additions to the pantheon...Pete Pumiglio, Johnny Mince, Hank D'Amico, Matty Matlock, Rosy McHargue, Joe Muranyi, Allan Vaché...I could go on.
Post Edited (2004-03-19 13:59)
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Author: jack
Date: 2004-03-20 04:01
Well, going back to the second post by M. Pinner, who shows a keen knowledge of some swing era guys, but missed some more of the great clarinet doublers just from the Ellington band alone. What needs to be said is that there is not and never has been any "debate" about whether B.G. was a jazz musician: face it, he is the prototypical jazz clarinetist. If his playing is not "representative" of what was going on in "live music at the time", it is because he was in a class all by himself - his trio and quartet recordings alone still tower above all the others in the same way that Sathcmo's Hot Five's & Seven's tower above all the rest. Just excuse me for pointing out that B.G. ranks a few solar systems ahead of Mezz Mezzrow, you dig? If there is a debate it would be whether A. Shaw (and I enjoy his music) is a jazz artist. Imo, Don Byron is not a jazz player at all, (improvised music doesn't equal jazz).
A few more underappreciated players would be George Bacquet (I'll buy any cuts for sale), George Lewis, Clarence Hutchenrider and Darnell Howard. There's many more.
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2004-03-21 00:04
Oh yeah, Brad Terry, for sure. I was lucky enough to be able to hang with Brad some when I was a teenager, and heard him play often at the Chocolate Church in Bath, ME. What a monster player - and a darned fine jazz whistler, too!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-21 00:06
I wonder what WJK's been up to . . . he always had interesting comments/questions . . . Hope he'll return.
US Army Japan Band
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