 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Jaysne
Date: 2024-04-19 16:46
I have an old Leblanc bass clarinet (low Eb). The serial number is 4009. It's stamped "G. Leblanc Paris France". The bottom of the neck is stamped "44".
I'm trying to figure out when this horn was made. I've found several websites with Leblanc serial numbers and they only go back to 1964. Based on my serial number, the horn was made sometime before that.
I emailed the Conn-Selmer folks in Europe and they said that Leblanc clarinets haven’t been manufactured in France for many years and they don’t have serial number records from that factory.
So, anyone have any ideas for me? Thanks.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: lydian
Date: 2024-04-19 17:27
Maybe just go for a coffee at first, get to know each other. Then some activity like bowling or a movie. Your families may not be very accepting at first. But if dating a bass clarinet makes you happy, who are they to judge.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jaysne
Date: 2024-04-19 19:38
ebonite,
Thank you for that amazing resource! I think I did pull it up a few days ago but the links looked dead to me.
One of the Bb clarinets' emblems looked just like the one on my bass: this is the one dated 1948, with a serial number of 59xx. (Notably, it has no model number, just like my instrument.) Extrapolating the serial number backwards a bit (mine is 4009), and assuming that the Bb and bass clarinets used the same serial numbers, I think I can date my instrument to about 1945.
Do you think that's a fair assessment?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-04-19 23:06
That would certainly be an interesting date to nail down . One year after the Nazis were sent packing from Paris and of course the end of WW2.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jaysne
Date: 2024-04-20 01:22
Julian,
I was thinking the same thing. Dates can seem so impersonal, but that date says a lot about what the person who made this clarinet was experiencing and thinking about at the time it was being made.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-04-20 11:10
It may have been business as usual for such companies as Leblanc , given that many high ranking Nazis were into classical music and may have seen to it that they still received the materials they needed in spite of the war effort. One wonders what went on during those turbulent times.
Pablo Casals, the great Catalan cellist and defender of Spain's republic ( a virtual death sentence under Franco) fled that regime over the Pyrenees into France, which subsequently became occupied by the Nazis. He refused to play for their top brass and was punished by having his bank accounts frozen. Coming from the Nazis, that's obviously just a slap on the hand, and clearly because they respected him as a great musician and master of Bach. Of course.... he still refused to play for them and probably wouldn't have even under gun point.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: crazyclari
Date: 2024-04-21 05:51
Hi, I may have read this wrong. There are different lists for bass and clarinets. I "believe" alto and basset horns were in the bass list also. But not sure
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-04-21 13:16
Indeed!.... I can't see any listings in the Clarinetperfection data that might correspond to an Alto older than 1964.
While the records to allow the accurate dating of older instruments are often seemingly lost...Aaarg! it's worth bearing in mind why manufacturers print serial numbers in the first place. For the owner it's good in case the instrument gets lost or stolen, but for the manufacturer it's all about the reasonably time period in which they concede to responsibility under guarantees or in providing spare parts and related services .As that time period expires, being practical people, these records get dumped in a damp basement or stuck in the shredder. They are, after all, manufacturers, not antiques dealers.
That said Jaynse, I suspect that you're the kind of person that will find the answer to your question if you are determined to( and if anybody can that is ).
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jaysne
Date: 2024-04-22 02:19
Julian, thanks for the vote of confidence! I know that my 1945 estimation may be taken with a grain of salt, being that it came from using a Bb clarinet serial number. But I think that perhaps back then they didn't discriminate between Bb and bass serial numbers--that is, both instruments may have used the same numbering system.
I imagine my next step would be to pop into the Conn-Selmer office in Paris and try to do some real digging. Who knows--if things go that route, I will definitely post my findings here.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-04-22 09:41
Perhaps the man you need to contact for this one is Leon Pascucci there in the US.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: crazyclari
Date: 2024-04-22 14:38
Of note is that from what I remember there are a couple of "lists" out there. May also be worth a search beyond clarinet perfection.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-04-22 18:09
Hi Jaysne,
You've probably read this history of the Leblanc corporation already, but I found it very interesting and it certainly offers context and significance to the time period you are speculating about, particularly 1945 ,as that was the year of the fateful meeting between a young American serviceman in Paris, Vito Pascucci and the German occupation reeling Leblanc family. If you could confirm that date for your horn,( or even shortly after) that would definitely be rather cool.
https://www.encyclopedia.com/books/politics-and-business-magazines/g-leblanc-corporation
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jaysne
Date: 2024-04-23 00:12
ebonite, great info! I was just speaking Brian Charles, owner of Charles Double Reeds in New Hampshire here in the US and I asked him about my Leblanc. I told him how I had roughly estimated the horn to be from 1945. He told me that in that era, a lot of times an instrument's body would be produced and then it would sit around for a few years before any keywork was added. Once it was ready for sale, that is when the serial number would be stamped. So in this sense it's really impossible to assign a date of manufacture, as it could have been assembled over a long period of time.
For me, the question would be, okay, I get that, but what year was the serial number added?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2024-05-01 07:23
>> This site (accessible only via web archive) <<
A bit off topic but what does this mean?
I was in contact with Clive a long time ago (he really helped me with something maybe 15-20 years ago) but at some point changed email address and lost all previous emails. I couldn't find his website either.
If I now just put the address itself, it does get to the website (looks normal, not an archived page).
What is the "web archive"? How did you find the website?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ebonite
Date: 2024-05-01 09:56
clarnibass wrote:
> >> This site (accessible only via web archive) <<
>
> A bit off topic but what does this mean?
At the time I wrote the message above, I was not able to access Clive's website, so I used the wayback machine https://web.archive.org/ which keeps an archive of old web pages.
> I was in contact with Clive a long time ago (he really helped
> me with something maybe 15-20 years ago)
I was also in contact with him about 15-20 years ago, as I bought an instrument from him. That's how I remembered about the website.
> If I now just put the address itself, it does get to the
> website (looks normal, not an archived page).
Yes, I have just tried it and it works for me too. Here is the link to the live website:
http://lynsgarden.co.uk/Rosecroft/Clarinets.html
> What is the "web archive"? How did you find the website?
I found the website using google. At the time I wrote the original post, google found the link, but the link didn't work. That's why I had to use the wayback machine, and I used that to access a version of the website that had been archived a few years ago.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
