 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: qualitycontrol
Date: 2015-11-09 07:14
Sorry if this is something that's been hashed out on the board already, but I couldn't find any information specific to bass clarinet pads using the search function.
I'm having my 1960's Buffet bass overhauled and am looking for advice on pad choices. My tech hasn't overhauled tonnes of bass clarinets and is hesitant to push me towards one choice, but has basically offered leather pads included in the overhaul (which in both our experiences work fine, more or less), and has suggested that the Kangaroo leather pads offered by MusicMedic work even better, as they're a bit less porous and are installed over a bladder. These do come at a higher price, especially because I am in Canada and our dollar is doing terribly.
Thirdly, he suggested we maybe explore using Valentinos for some of the keys. I've had very good luck with these on my soprano clarinets and he likes them very much, but hasn't really field tested them on bass clarinets.
Is there are a large advantage of the RooPads over regular leather? Does anyone out there have any other suggestions? I'm aware only of Goretex Buffet-style pads, but those seem prohibitively expensive.
I was thinking of padding the upperjoint save the large C cup in Valentinos and the lower joint in leather.
Any comments or suggestions are greatly welcomed, thanks,
Paul
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-11-09 08:53
When a pad is porous then it is because of the leather (or other material), not the felt. The extra layer of bladder the Roo pads have will help against the felt hardening over time (it would still happen, just slower) and maybe help some against porousity, but not really. When a pad is porous, the air comes in through the face of the pad and comes out from the sides, outside the tone hole rim.
IME the Roo pads that I've checked were, in general, somewhat more porous than most other leather pads I've tried. I assume this is why they are less sticky than some other pads, though other pads are not necessarily sticky at all. They are also no less sticky than any other pad when the stickiness comes from anything other than the pad leather itself. Actually, the slightly rougher surface might mean it's easier for dirt to embed in it.
Check the thickness of the pads. Some bass clarinets use clarinet pads (approx. 3mm) and some use pads as thick as saxophone pads (approx. 4mm). In most cases you could use the other type (especially thin pads for an instrument that needs thick pads) but it can make the work more difficult.
I still can't avoid using some leather pads... I use both clarinet and saxophone pads made by Music Center which have a thin plastic layer between the felt and the leather.
Most leather pads, at least those sold by reputable companies, should be good. Music Center, Roo pads, Valentino, etc.
Valentino sax leather pad (which might work for bass clarinet, depends on thickness needed) also seem to soak liquid more easily so I guess they are not treated.
In the end I doubt you'd feel much if any difference between them.
Re Valentino and other synthetic pads, first I have to say I really don't like Valentino Greenback pads.
I really like Omni pads and I think they are now avalable in sizes for bass clarinets but not sure.
I'm just starting to test Valentino Masters pads and so far they seem promising, but they are not available at sizes above 20mm if I remember (many bass clarinets have sizes larger than that on the upper joint).
It is not necessary to devide the type of pad by upper and lower joints. It can be nice to have the same pads on a "group" of keys e.g. all trill keys, all left hand stack keys, etc. to get the asme feel, but sometimes it's actually good to have a different firmness on different pads in a "group" like the stack (e.g. the pad you actually press to close and the pad that is closed by the same key from a linkage).
Overall I think any good quality pad will be ok and it's not that important. It's best to use pads that your repairer feels comfortable that he can do good work with them.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-11-09 12:45
Whenever I've changed pads on my bass (a Buffet) I've used either Glotin or Chanu white leather pads which are made with leather with a plastic coating. While this kind of pad can get very sticky on saxes, I've had no problem with them on clarinets (or oboes).
Some of the large pads can benefit with a rivet through the centre to prevent them sagging into the tonehole or even a washer or resonator (a flat one) for the same reason. Or you could have a cross stitch in the centre (and then sealed with wax) as some bassoons have done to them to stop the centre of the pad sagging.
Selmer basses often have sax pads in the large pad cups as they have a thick set (around 4mm thick), but clarinet pads elsewhere. Buffet, Leblanc and Yamaha basses use the same thickness leather pads as bassoons everywhere (around 3mm thick).
You're best having a cork pad fitted in the LH1 fingerplate, but Buffet use a 16mm pad there so one will have to be made - a flute headjoint cork can be sliced up and sanded down to size to fit, but if that's not possible, then a 16mm leather pad with the centre punched out will do, but seal the inside edge where it's been punched out to prevent water soaking into the felt.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2015-11-09 16:58
Paul,
Have you tech contact Eric Satterlee at Meridian Winds in Michigan. He is an expert in bass clarinet overhauls. I'm sure he would be happy share his knowledge with a NAPBRIT colleague.
HRL
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2015-11-09 18:31
I repair a lot of bass clarinets. And I respect Clarnibass's opinions as he is both an experienced technician and performer. I have been using synthetic pads on the smaller holes tone holes of the bass clarinet. I've tried Greenbacks, Masters and Omni. Where I seldom use greenbacks on a professional soprano clarinet, I will use them on a bass clarinet and I'm interested in Clarnibass's opinion of them.
Each synthetic pad has its plusses and minuses. They are all more heat sensitive than leather pads. The larger the pad the bigger a problem this is as the pad can easily become warped. The green back pad works best with a flat bottomed pad cup. The pad is then fit without glue to see if the thickness will work and how much glue is needed. Then the appropriate amount of glue can be added so that a minimum amount of heat can be used to level the pad.
One advantage of the Greenback is that it is very tolerant of key play.. This is especially helpful in the long trill keys. It is also more tolerant of small tone hole defects
The other synthetic pads are installed in a similar manner. The Masters and Omni are more rigid and will not warp as easily. The Masters is not as tolerant of tone hole defects. There are tricks to both. The Omnipad comes in a confusing array of sizes - some better suited to bass clarinets than others.
It may be best for your tech to use good quality sax and/or bass clarinet pads that he is familiar with. The quality of the installation is the most important factor.
Steve Ocone
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Author: qualitycontrol
Date: 2015-11-10 08:12
Great, thanks for all the advice everyone. Seems like good quality leather pads are probably the way to go, as he is very comfortable with them, and there doesn't seem to be an alternative that stands out as being much better.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-11-10 17:39
>> Whenever I've changed pads on my bass (a Buffet) I've used either Glotin or Chanu white leather pads which are made with leather with a plastic coating. <<
I think Buffet bass clarinets originally come with Chanu pads, at least those I remember.
I think by "plastic coating" you mean treatment that makes them airtight/waterproof? Or do you mean the thin plastic disc that some pads (like some models from Music Center) have?
>> Selmer basses often have sax pads in the large pad cups as they have a thick set (around 4mm thick), but clarinet pads elsewhere. <<
I've seen some Selmer (Paris) bass clarinets that required thicker pads even for some of the smaller keys.
>> You're best having a cork pad fitted in the LH1 fingerplate, but Buffet use a 16mm pad there so one will have to be made <<
I mostly use cork pads for this, but I've tried synthetic pads (Omni) and I think I like it at least the same or even better. Maybe because I'm not crazy about cork pads in general.
You can get 16mm cork pads, they are available in that size (I stock them).
>> Where I seldom use greenbacks on a professional soprano clarinet, I will use them on a bass clarinet and I'm interested in Clarnibass's opinion of them. <<
The main reason I don't like the Greenbacks is that there is nothing rigid that keeps them level so they easily ditort. I don't mean distortion from heat, I just mean they don't keep theur shape when installing them.
They also feel a little spongy.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2015-11-10 21:57
I can't help with a name of the pad but the guy I use in MD did mine with a leather pad that he hand rubber down each individual pad with some type of oil but again, not sure what. I had my bass overhauled about 12 years ago and though I'm retired now I played it in the Baltimore Symphony for ten years after the overhaul. I never had to have a single pad replace to this day, and I played it very often in the orchestra for those last ten year. In any case, my advise is to have the work done by an experienced tech with bass clarinet experience and make sure you play it before you leave the shop. I've seen too many case of even the top repair techs missing something when working on bass clarinets if they don't actually play the instrument themselves to play before finishing the job. Not to mention that everyone has their own touch and feel preferences for the action on the keys. So you want it the way you like it not the way a tech thinks it should be. That's why I never advise "sending it out" unless you can pick it up and try it before leaving.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2017-08-21 22:48
I'm not a particularly accomplished bass clarinet player, but upgraded my bass to a Yamaha 221ii a couple years back (school extra stock used). The pads and regulation were a mess so I rejuvenated the soft materials and used roopads throughout. I have been perfectly happy with this setup although the upper stack occasionally gets a little sticky in long practice sessions but is fine after a touch with a wipe or cloth.
Post Edited (2017-09-01 07:46)
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2017-08-22 07:16
John Butler used a set of Buffet leather pads when he over hauled my low C Buffet a couple of years ago.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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