 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ed Lowry
Date: 2013-01-12 03:43
I'm performing Milhaud's Suite op. 157b for violin, clarinet and piano this weekend and the question of how to pronounce "Milhaud" has come up. Most people that I've heard, including radio commentators on English language broadcasts, say Me-yo. So does the Wikipedia pronunciation guide. But the following website has a post from a native French speaker that says Me-Lo.
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1753744
And our coach says that her former teacher once studied with Milhaud and said that the "L" is pronounced.
Can anyone shed more light on this fascinating question?
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2013-01-12 04:53
I'm still in contact with my high school French teacher... I'll ask her!
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-01-12 05:34
"In France every Frenchman knows his language from "A" to "Zed"-
But the French don't care what they do, actually, so long as they
pronounce it properly."
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2013-01-12 08:11
I've heard the "l" pronounced, but 99 times out of a hundred, it isn't: I'm speaking of what's done in France where I've spent more than two-thirds of my life.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2013-01-12 09:05
I might add that pronunciation changes throughout history. I'm sure the "l" was pronounced at one point.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Varied
Date: 2013-01-12 10:40
Oh dear, I've been pronouncing it 'Mee-ow' all this time, and sounding like a cat in the process!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-01-12 11:04
I grew up speaking "French-Canadian French" rather than "Parisian French", but there's no doubt in my mind that "me-yo" is correct. Silent "L".
Remember that no French word is complete without at least one, and preferably as many as possible, silent letters.
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2013-01-12 12:43
So the follow-up...and one I've always wondered about:
How is Cahuzac pronounced?
I'm pretty sure "Kuh-HOO-zack" is out...though I know folks in Kentucky who would be pleased if it wasn't.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2013-01-12 13:46
It's quite understandable that non-French speakers would wonder how to pronounce "Milhaud." I would guess that the French name most frequently mispronounced by "outsiders" is "Camille Saint-Saëns."
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2013-01-12 14:17
I concur with Mr Spiegelthal. Based on our common canadian-french speaking background. I believe it is "me-yo". I believe the presence of the 'h' silences the 'l'. So "Milaud" would be "melo" also "Millaud" would be 'me-yo" because of 'll'. But how do you pronounce "Darius"?
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-01-12 15:16
It was once explained to me, I can't remember by whom, that there were two possible pronunciations, one with and one without the 'l' being sounded; because in Aix-en-Provence where Milhaud was born, it was customary to sound the 'l', but in Paris this sounded provincial, and so the name was pronounced without 'l' by Parisians and perhaps even there by Milhaud himself. (Don't know about that last bit.)
Small story: for many years in my youth, BBC radio used to broadcast a brilliant half-hour programme called 'Talking about Music', presented by a composer and conductor called Anthony Hopkins. Though the programme itself was recorded, all the musical excerpts not provided by Hopkins at the piano were dropped in in real time by a technician in the control room, direct from vinyl disc. They had a clever arrangement whereby the record, with the pickup arm already resting on it, and on a light turntable, was started from beneath by letting in a clutch that brought a massive, already rotating secondary turntable into contact. A quick twiddle of the volume control ensured a smooth beginning and ending; meanwhile the technician moved to another turntable to prepare the next excerpt.
In 1967, as a young clarinettist I had to meet with Hopkins at Broadcasting House to play to him, because he was running a Festival in Norwich in which it had been suggested that I played the Berg 4 pieces, the Chamber Concerto Trio arrangement and the Bartok Contrasts -- and he'd never heard me. So we played something together, and obviously I must have satisfied him, because I did play in the concert; but a bonus for me was that he invited me to stay on and listen to the edition of 'Talking about Music' that he was about to record.
On this occasion, he was talking about a piece by Milhaud. Everything was going swimmingly; but a few minutes in, a sudden doubt struck Hopkins, and he broke off to talk to the producer about the pronunciation of the composer's name.
"Hang on," said the producer, and picked up a phone in the control room (where I was listening to the recording myself.)
"Get me Pronunciation," he said.
"Hello, can you tell me the Official BBC Pronunciation of the composer M-I-L-H-A-U-D, please? (Be with you in a moment, Tony)."
[short pause]
"Oh really? Thank you very much.
"I'm sorry, Tony, we have to start again. It's Milhaud WITH THE 'L', I'm afraid."
"Shit," said Hopkins -- and went back to the beginning.
Tony
Post Edited (2013-01-13 21:37)
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Author: Ed Lowry
Date: 2013-01-12 17:52
Thanks, everyone. I'll have plenty of material now to introduce this piece!
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-01-12 20:37
So, I suggest you introduce it as the Milhaud Trilhaud, which is what we used to call it:-)
Tony
Post Edited (2013-01-12 20:38)
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2013-01-15 17:59
If you were in my part of the country, playing to a non-musically educated audience, you could pronounce it Dare-ee-us Mill-how'd and no one would bat an eye.
I played this piece on my senior recital in college and it was so much fun to perform. I wouldn't mind performing it again, sometime.
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2013-01-15 23:05
Off topic, but this thread reminds me of Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck pronouncing "Saint Saens" when they are going to perform the Carnival of the Animals.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-01-16 06:51
>> I'll definitely go with the Milhaud Trilhaud joke! <<
Make sure you tell it right
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2013-01-16 19:21
I was a college student in Pennsylvania in the late 1960's when Milhaud came to campus to receive an award. The college president introduced him as Da-RYE-us Mee-Yo. And Milhaud himself, sharing an anecdote, referred to himself in the third person as Mee-Yo.
sorry for the double post....
Post Edited (2013-01-16 19:22)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-01-16 19:46
>> I was a college student in Pennsylvania in the late 1960's when Milhaud came to campus to receive an award. The college president introduced him as Da-RYE-us Mee-Yo. And Milhaud himself, sharing an anecdote, referred to himself in the third person as Mee-Yo.>>
Thanks for this. But it's explicable, as I'm sure you understand, under:
(1) Milhaud didn't care so much about how his name was pronounced, or accepted two different pronunciations,
and/or,
(2) he didn't want to embarrass the college president.
I suppose that (1) differs between people, and may indeed differ over time.
For many years I was irritated by mis-spellings of my first name: 'Anthony' instead of 'Antony', especially when it appeared on the cover of the first solo disc I ever made -- because it didn't LOOK LIKE ME, NOT TO ME OR TO MY MUM! -- but I tried to give that up, and am more relaxed about it these days.
After all, Antony Sher, the actor, suffers -- or not -- in much the same way.
Tony
Post Edited (2013-01-16 23:53)
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Author: donald
Date: 2013-01-16 22:28
In my non classical guise my name was botched up on the 2nd album I was on, and my picture miraculously deleted from the cover before it was sent off to the printer (this was in the very very early days of digital picture stuff- it was all very cutting edge and Ron was very pleased with himself, except that he moved me off the page, forgot to move me back, and sent it all off to print on a FLOPPY DISK!).
Later, in the USA, i was credited as "Noo Zealand donald", which i confess i liked. Call me DON however and it's a sure sign you don't know me very well....
d
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-01-17 18:20
It's common for people in the United States to adopt local pronunciations of our own names (as my family did with LEE-lee-ya, when "Lelia" should be pronounced LAY-lee-ya, as if anybody gives half a squeak anyway) and I have the impression that the same thing happens the world over.
My policy, having lived 64 years with a frequently misspelled name that's pronounced every which way, is not to worry about any of that but to pronounce other people's names the way they pronounce them, themselves, whether those pronunciations are anybody else's idea of "correct" or not, so thank you, weberfan, for your information:
>I was a college student in Pennsylvania in the late 1960's when Milhaud came to campus to receive an award. The college president introduced him as Da-RYE-us Mee-Yo. And Milhaud himself, sharing an anecdote, referred to himself in the third person as Mee-Yo.
>
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2013-01-17 20:25
I quite take Tony's point about Milhaud's own pronunciation of his name.
Merely passing along the anecdote, allowing it to stand on its own.
As it happened, the college president introduced Milhaud at a formal ceremony. The reception afterward, in a more relaxed atmosphere, was where we heard him say his name. Until that day, I had no clear idea how to pronounce it. Since then, I've stuck with Mee-Yo, fingers crossed.
Post Edited (2013-01-18 17:54)
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2013-01-18 01:48
Pronunciation has been a sore point with me for many years. There's something about a northern English accent that automatically leads to a reduction in credibility, especially when it comes to French pronunciation. I've been corrected publicly on most of the greats. 'Poulenc', comes to mind. 'Saint-Saens' has caused problems and 'Milhaud' has led to a great deal of chuckling (at my expense).
Good to have at least one cleared up.
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2013-01-18 14:30
I was once at a symposium on Vaughan Williams and Elgar, wherein one presenter pronounced RVW's 'Sancta Civitas' three different ways within sixty seconds--kept a dead pan face while doing it too.
[ "SAHNG-tah SIV-ee-tahs", "SAHNG-tah CHIV-ee-tahs" and "SAHNG-tah siv-EE-tahs". Nothing like covering all your bases.]
I'm still waiting for some to take a crack at 'Cahuzac'....
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-01-18 20:18
So, what we now know is, Mio is not wrong, because Milhaud said it, reported first-hand.
But we still don't REALLY know that Milo is not wrong. Lots of evidence points to it being not wrong -- but it isn't as nailed down as Mio is, pace the BBC.
Tony
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-01-19 13:16
This thread reminds me of something one of the Mystery Science Theater 3000 guys (I think it was Crow T. Robot) said during a commentary track on an amusingly bad old science fiction movie: "Uranus -- always a problem no matter how you pronounce it."
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2013-01-20 15:55
I do not want to end this chain, but how do you pronounce Sibelius?
richard smith
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-01-20 18:50
>> "Uranus -- always a problem no matter how you pronounce it." <<
There was (or still is?) a show called Futurama, I've only seen a couple of episodes, but in one of them someone suggested to solve that problem by changing the name of this planet....... to Urectum
Post Edited (2013-01-20 18:51)
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Author: mrn
Date: 2013-01-21 03:35
Milhaud's widow pronounced it "Miyo".
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU6dSUwFuUM at about 4:45.
I think the name is not really French--it's Occitan (same language as Canteloube's Songs of the Auvergne). The "lh" letter combination shows up in that language and, in Provence, is apparently pronounced like a y (it's like a double l in Spanish). Milhaud (spelled Millau in modern French, but Milhau in Occitan) is actually the name of a place in Southern France (see the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millau)
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