 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kevin
Date: 2005-10-12 21:19
Anybody know of any noteworthy colleges, especially smaller ones, that have somewhat decent music programs that may not be well known? Northeast United States mostly what I'm interested in, especially closer or in large cities. Thanks.
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-10-12 22:05
University of Massachusetts - Lowell, Dartmouth, or Amherst.
Sue Tansey
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Author: Connor
Date: 2005-10-12 22:54
Not exactly north east--
The Universtiy of Northern Colorado has a renowed Jazz studies program, and several exelent professors versed in both classical and jazz stlyes...
Andy Dalhky--Saxophones...Classical Jazz
Bil Jackson---Clainet, Playes Colorado Symphony Orch
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Author: Iacuras
Date: 2005-10-12 23:15
Connor wrote:
> Not exactly north east--
> The Universtiy of Northern Colorado has a renowed Jazz
> studies program, and several exelent professors versed in both
> classical and jazz stlyes...
> Andy Dalhky--Saxophones...Classical Jazz
> Bil Jackson---Clainet, Playes Colorado Symphony Orch
UNC also has one of the top Music Education programs in the nation, if you are thinking of teaching.
Steve
"If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon."
"If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly."
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-10-12 23:49
Duquesne
Carnegie Mellon
Both in Pittsburgh
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-10-13 01:23
You could try Temple University in Philadelphia, or University of Maryland which is near Washington DC. Also, West Chester University of PA is near Philly, and also has a good program. Lastly, The COllege of New Jersey, Pretty good program and good urban location sort of between Philly and NYC.
Best
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2005-10-13 01:31
I was never a music major, only know what I hear, but as I live in the NE US, here are a few:
Rowan U, Glassboro NJ. Noted jazz program
West Chester U, West Chester, PA Music ed.
University of the Arts, Phila. Right near Curtis. Also has a noted jazz program, I believe.
Lebanon Valley College, Annville, PA Noted church music program and for music ed.
Eastern College, Philadelphia Main Line suburbs. Noted church music program.
Rowan and West Chester are state schools, which means cheaper tuition, but mainly so for in-state residents. You should check out all the small state universities which in my day were known as "teachers colleges". They all have to train music educators, so there may be some "gems" among them.
Hope this helps.
Steve Epstein
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-10-13 02:07
Crane School of Music, SUNY at Potsdam, NY.
One of the finest schools in the USA for music education, which also emphasizes a very high calibre of performance. (Yes...even the Music Ed majors have to play extremely well to graduate)
The staff has 3 of the leading American composers of band and choral music:
Robert Washburn, Elliot DelBorgo and Arthur Frackenpohl.
Raphael Sanders, Alan Woy and Sherman Friedland are the current clarinet instructors.
...GBK (Class of '71)
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2005-10-13 02:14
Baldwin-Wallace College in Berea, Ohio is close to Cleveland, with many Cleveland Orch. members on the faculty.
<www.bw.edu/academics/conservatory/>
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Author: dummer musiker
Date: 2005-10-13 02:49
Fredonia School of Music, SUNY Fredonia (NY).
Excellant Music Education program.
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-13 02:56
Ithaca College School of Music, Ithaca, NY
Michael Galván (current ICA president) and Richard Faria are the clarinet instructors.
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Author: Kevin
Date: 2005-10-13 03:14
Thanks. Lots of good help so far. Duquesne has really struck me - Rusnick is a member of the clarinet faculty there. Does anybody know how it ranks on the admissions selectivity rating? as compared to....say the likes of Ithaca, Purchase, and Potsdam?
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-10-13 12:09
The Hartt School of Music at the University of Hartford.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-10-13 12:37
Kevin, I know I suggested Duquesne, but ditto for Temple and West Chester Pa. , I just forgot to mention them.
( email me offline )
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: the only sane person in the room
Date: 2005-10-13 15:39
If you want to be a player, go where players go.
If you can't get in there and you still want to be a player, you might be fooling yourself, but if you are willing to work EXTREMELY HARD. . .
. . .go somewhere where a great player teaches. You need to be around someone who knows what it means to play the clarinet well ON THE JOB. Anyone can sound good in a studio (well not anyone).
Ignore at your own peril.
among those mentioned. . .
Mike Rusinek
Bil Jackson
are certainly great players who know what IT is.
If you don't know what I mean by IT, you have a lot to learn.
If you don't know what IT is, and you went to one of the schools you listed, then don't recommend it to others.
Oy
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-10-13 16:32
That's a pretty high horse you're on, TOSPITR. I hope you're sure of your footing.
Allen Cole
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-10-13 16:38
Are you looking for a performance major school or an Ed school.
They are quite different. Ricardo teaches a limited # of students at Temple, but other than that, I wouldn't recommend it at all.
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Author: the only sane person in the room
Date: 2005-10-13 16:39
allencole wrote:
> That's a pretty high horse you're on, TOSPITR. I hope you're
> sure of your footing.
>
Yes, my horse is high and so are my standards.
The music performance business is brutal.
There isn't enough room in it even for the graduates of the good schools who study with good teachers.
For every success story from Nowhere state, there are 10,000 or more failures.
Do the math.
Performance or ed? You should still learn to play well. Too many people go into music ed because they are too lazy to do the work. Just what we need, teachers who won't even try to find out what IT is. god help us all.
Post Edited (2005-10-13 16:42)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-10-13 16:49
IT
Yes, Information Technology is a good field.
1960's "Plastics."
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-10-13 16:51
Sane person, if you have the "guts", post with your real name.
Post Edited (2005-10-14 00:24)
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Author: vin
Date: 2005-10-13 20:30
Michael Sussman teaches at UMass-Amherst and knows what IT is.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-10-13 20:43
the only sane person in the room wrote:
> Too many people go into music ed because
> they are too lazy to do the work.
Wrong.
Why do many people go into music education? Let me give you a few reasons:
Perhaps they genuinely enjoy the teaching of music - especially to youngsters. That doesn't necessarily mean they have not honed and continued to maintain their own performance skills at a high level. Many music educators in the public schools not only play well, but play exceptionally well. Not everyone has aspirations of university level studio teaching, which really does little more than just swell the ranks by turning out hundreds more unemployable clarinet players.
Perhaps they like the job security, salary advancement and retirement benefits that accompany public school teaching.
Perhaps they want to eventually have their own home, drive a nice car and not live in a tiny, cramped apartment with no health insurance, or not able to afford any of the other luxuries of life.
Perhaps they don't want to join the cattle call and fight for one of the very few minimum paying orchestral positions, with no guarantee of future earning advancement or job security.
Perhaps they don't want to have to take a pay cut or a reduction of weeks just to keep a music performance based job which is slowly growing out of favor with the general public.
Perhaps they enjoy the respect and appreciation of a world community which embraces and appreciates its teachers, but unfortunately cares little about performers or the live performing arts.
Perhaps they don't want to struggle weekly, monthly, and yearly, living paycheck to paycheck and having to work 2 or 3 side jobs, just to eke out a passable living.
Perhaps being a starving musician with unmarketable great performance skills is not for everyone ...GBK
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Author: Gretchen
Date: 2005-10-13 23:04
I agree 150% with GBK...
In my opinion, music ed is the HARDER of the two majors when going to college. All performance majors have to do is play in ensembles, take some theory and practice all the time. That's not hard...that's FUN! Education majors could only wish for that, since, for ed majors, the class load is enormous. On top of private lessons, their normal sight singing/theory classes, ensembles and their own practicing, they have to take classes learning every instrument (strings and winds), ed psych, eurithmics/dalcrose, k-12 teaching techniques, writing lesson plans, conducting, student teaching and more. Lazy?? Lazy my a$$.
btw, Kevin, if you are interested in Duquesne, email me if you have any questions, since I went there and studied privately with both Mike Rusinek and Ron Samuels. Both were extremely effective teachers. 
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-13 23:11
Gretchen wrote:
> I agree 150% with GBK...
>
> In my opinion, music ed is the HARDER of the two majors when
> going to college. All performance majors have to do is play in
> ensembles, take some theory and practice all the time. That's
> not hard...that's FUN! Education majors could only wish
That's not correct, at least at Cleveland Institute of Music to get your bachelors in performance. You have to complete the requirements for the bachelor's degree as prescribed by Case-Western. English, history, psychology, foreign language, science, eurythmics, theory, composition, performance, practice, practice, practice, homework.
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Author: Gretchen
Date: 2005-10-13 23:18
oops, I forgot to include core classes...you're quite right, Mark. And of course ed majors have to do those core classes as well....on top of what I listed. Atleast that's what they did at Duquesne.
So again, my main point is that music ed majors are not lazy.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-10-14 00:05
"Perhaps they enjoy the respect and appreciation of a world community which embraces and appreciates its teachers"
There are plenty of good reasons to teach (which GBK mentions), Unfortunately, in my opinion, appreciation is not something you will generally find in the teaching profession. Often it is a thankless job. The media often bashes teachers as do nothings and as contributors to the problems in our society. You often hear people complaining about teachers being overpaid, too much time off, "those who can't do, teach", blah, blah, blah. I am sure most people know what I am talking about.
Teaching can be very rewarding, but sometimes you need to have a tough skin and look for the little rays of sun. (and I don't mean the summers off ;-) )
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-10-14 00:28
Ed majors and performance majors are usually cut from a different cloth in both talent and direction.
Ed majors are usually the more practical ones by far. I wouldn't say that they were lazy at all, just either not as talented performance wise, or really practical in that the performance majors will probably be computer technicians at some point anyway.
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Author: Kevin
Date: 2005-10-14 00:59
Just to get it out that I myself have no intentions of teaching public k-12 schools.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-10-14 01:46
A couple of points-
"Ed majors and performance majors are usually cut from a different cloth in both talent and direction.
Ed majors are usually the more practical ones by far. I wouldn't say that they were lazy at all, just either not as talented performance wise,"
I think it is tough to generalize (as with anything). I have known a number of people who were Ed majors who have good performing jobs and are top notch players and musicians. I know some who are top notch who continue to perfom, but choose for various reasons (artistic, financial, etc) to teach.
I have also known a number who over the years had gotten tired of doing the starving artist bit and at some point got their degrees and certifications in order to get a regular day gig teaching. Yes, for reasons that GBK mentions. In addition, unless you have a top performing gig, most players have to do something else on the side, so why not do something in music where you can pass on what you know, use the skills you were trained for, get good benefits, etc, rather than doing a desk gig somewhere. You can still gig at night and work your schedule around the teaching.
Kevin- It is good that you seem clear on what you want to do (or don't want to do) with yourself. I always tell students to think carefully about the fact that the music work is a very tough business. The odds that you can make it playing are never great and getting worse by the day. Look at other things within the music business that could make you marketable so that you have options to be able to make a decent living.
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Author: Kevin
Date: 2005-10-14 02:01
"Kevin- It is good that you seem clear on what you want to do (or don't want to do) with yourself. I always tell students to think carefully about the fact that the music work is a very tough business. The odds that you can make it playing are never great and getting worse by the day. Look at other things within the music business that could make you marketable so that you have options to be able to make a decent living."
I'm actually looking to go into composition (the figures of openings vs. total applicants at most conservatories are very very slim) and not performance. I'd ultimately like to end up being a theory/composition professor at a college, but definately not K-12, mainly because of the appreciation that you mentioned.
BTW...my colleges are Eastman (1st), Peabody, NEC, Mannes (i'm in their precollege), SUNY Purchase, and Indiana U (not the school of music; i'll be combining a minor in music theory at the liberal arts college with something else, very likely biology)
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2005-10-14 02:20
>>"The staff has 3 of the leading American composers of band and choral >>music:
>>Robert Washburn, Elliot DelBorgo and Arthur Frackenpohl."
I am thoroughly jealous.
On another note, about Duquesne and Carnegie Mellon. I go to Carnegie Mellon and have worked with all of the clarinet majors in some capacity or another. Michael Rusineck has TWO students (I think) at CMU and they are both graduate students. If you are going into an undergraduate setting you will not study with him. That goes for Duquesne as well (to my understanding). We just got a first year grad student coming in here from Curtis because he wanted to study with Rusineck (who is an alumnus of Curtis himself).
Good luck with whatever you do.
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Author: Laurie
Date: 2005-10-14 04:01
Fredonia School of Music - SUNY Fredonia.
It's a top notch school. Amazing program with tons of opportunities. Extremely strong music education cirrculum. Also, the opportunity to duel major in Music Performance, Jazz Studies, Music Business,Sound Recording and Music Therapy.
I just transfered here from Potsdam.. and love it.
Feel free to contact me at LBHughes@Mac. com or LBHughes24 If you need any info on either schools.
A piece of advice - Go into any and each school with an open mind.. Don't have your heart set one because you become blinded and often miss out on a lot.
Best of Luck!
Laurie
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2005-10-14 11:02
One other thought a 17- or 18-year old should consider carefully...
A number of the "Hidden Schools" mentioned in the earlier posts are extremely fine, and high prestige, undergrad liberal arts or science institutions, in addition to being excellent music schools. Not everyone who starts in music is going to stay there, but if (like a high percentage of undergrads) you do shift fields in college or as you go about your life and support a family and find your interests change, you might find that having attended a highly rated, well-known college (well known in general overall reputation) will open more doors for you than a less well-known institution. As fair or unfair as this sounds, a "music" major from one of the top 200 colleges who comes into my company looking for a job (in a field not at all related to music) is probably going to be looked at much more favorably than someone who attended a college we do not recognize as a place where smart people are given the general opportunity to expand their problem-solving skills. Most people who interview new college grads for entry level research assistant jobs will probably tell you that the candidates from the "better" undergrad colleges tend to interview better for all jobs, irrespective of their undergraduate major.
I suspect that many very knowledgeable, and "sane" folks posting to this list, probably think that having a large number of career options at the ages of 18 or 21 or 25 is more important for most people than finding "IT" by the age of 18 as an above poster suggests.
George
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-14 11:22
ghuba wrote:
> you might find
> that having attended a highly rated, well-known college (well
> known in general overall reputation) will open more doors for
> you than a less well-known institution.
I'd have to pretty much disagree. As one who has had hiring duties in engineering off and on over the last 25 years, except for some very special cases the college of choice for an undergrad degree hasn't been a factor in hiring.
Graduate work is a different case.
I would agree, though, that going to a college or university with depth in many fields (which would make it highly-rated and well-known) would be a plus since it allows for a far greater choice in academic pursuits.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-10-14 13:37
Hi,
Here is a thread which talks a lot about music education schools but there have been many performance majors come out of some as well. John Sampen, BGSU Professor, is one of the finest sax performance teachers in the country and Don Sinta, just up the road at U of M is no slouch either. Their students are among the very best.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=148622&t=148292
As a graduate of three state universities in Ohio (Bachelor's degree in music ed.), I believe that this tier of schools represent some of the best educational "bang for your buck" around. Others above have mentioned several similar examples (some of the SUNY schools are outstanding).
HRL
PS Even with out-of-state tuition at some state schools, costs can still be reasonable.
Post Edited (2005-10-14 14:05)
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-10-14 20:47
Here's why I teach.
Yesterday morning, when I was escorting my brand new 4th and 5th grade trombone players down to my room for their first lesson, one student said to me, "This is the best day of my life". It doesn't get any better than that.
Sue Tansey
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Author: clarinetmom
Date: 2005-10-15 05:08
After reading all these posts, I'm in a panic.
As a parent of a high school senior who is looking to go to a music school, am I doing my daughter a terrible injustice. She's applying to the three SUNY music schools, IU School of Music, Boyer at Temple, Bard's new Conservatory of Music and Berklee.
Is getting a BM degree really that worthless? She loves playing and performing but I don’t know if she will ever be the principal clarinetist of the NY Philharmonic.
Am I making a horrific mistake by encouraging her to pursue her dreams? Will she wind up having wasted 4 years and a considerable amount of money.
She mentioned at one point wanting to go for psychology, but I did try and discourage her, I thought a life spent playing and listening to beautiful music would be so much happier than a life at Bellevue. Maybe I wrong?
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Author: luckyclarinettoenla
Date: 2005-10-15 07:05
Clarinetmom! Have no fears. I majored in music and though currently I am in the process of enrolling in graduate school for music ed and performance, I took time off to join the corporate world. The skills that I learned as an undergraduate definitely paid off as I started with a part-time position working at a kiosk in a mall and within 5 months was running the entire Northeast region. Do not be fooled into thing that your daughter will learn only how to survive in a musical setting. There are things that musicians learn very early on that can be applied to the "real world". Things like motivating people to do their best, working within a team setting, not accepting anything less than perfect and very importantly the use of tact. If your daugther is able to apply this knowledge she will break any and all glass ceilings placed in front of her. The best that you can do is to encourage her to make her own decisions, and to definitely let her make her own mistakes. They'll make her a stronger person. I wish you both the best of luck in the nearing future. :-)
Never fool yourself into believing that today's 'good enough' will do tomorrow!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-15 11:33
clarinetmom wrote:
> Am I making a horrific mistake by encouraging her to pursue her
> dreams? Will she wind up having wasted 4 years and a
> considerable amount of money.
I put a son through 3 years at Interlochen High School and 4 years at Cleveland Institute of Music.
Does he make his living performing? Not yet. He teaches and conducts at an international high school and performs occasionally in the Tokyo area.
Did we/he waste the money? Honestly, somedays it feels that way, but all in all we had the ability to help him pursue his dream, and isn't that what parents are for? He's found that he enjoys conducting even more than he enjoys playing, went to Korea for a couple weeks this year to work at a conducting master class, and will be applying for this year's opening in conducting at the Tokyo Gedai (Tokyo National Arts School). The openings are few and far between, so we're keeping our fingers crossed. We have no idea what the future will bring, but his mother and I are happy we sent him off in the direction he wanted.
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Author: Nick H
Date: 2005-10-15 15:41
Larry Combs was an ed major, right? Just to throw it out there...
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