 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-09-24 02:53
So the deal is that everyone wants to make first chair, right? That's everyone's goal in life, and has been mine since I've started, and the first chair clarinet player wasn't so nice to me... my fellow clarinet players have been playing ever since middle school, having anywhere from 4-8 years of experience to my 1 year... I'm just wondering if I were able to/or am able to sound as good as them, would the band director pick them over me because they've had more experience and are upper classmen? But of course that is something that none of y'all can answer, because you don't know my band director or how well I play... Anyways to evaluate my playing
Tone is focused
Tonguing is not so great
I squeak occasionally
Sight reading is not so great
I suppose I need to get my scales 2-3 octaves, but only have 1-2 octaves for now... Only know major scales though
Need to get more expression in my playing...
And I can't really play in front of certain people very well, such as my band director...
Any tips or advice on how to improve would be greatly appreciated... Much thanks...
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-09-24 03:42
well, you might not make first chair(especially if youre not and upperclassman). But you would be surpirsed how little many high school(casual) clarinet players know. Just because you dont make first chair at first doesnt mean you wont get in the band(or w/e it is that ur trying for). I'd say probably only 2 to 3(maybe just one) out of the 30 that go to my school know all their major scales, and its only 1-2 octaves. I know all major and minor 3 octaves, and thats part of why i'm first chair. Honestly i was probably better than the majority of the people that go to my highschool when i was in 8th grade. What helped me advance was that i had a private teacher. W/o private lessons i would be no where. But, when i was in 9th grade and 10th grade i was 2nd chair. I wouldnt expect to get first chair if you're in 9th or 10th grade and you have only been playing for a year. Just keep working hard, just remember whoever wants it the most will get it. But again, you'd be surpirsed how little many highschoolers know about playing the clarinet, or just music in general.
The situation may be different at your school and you might be going up against 10 all state players for all i know, but thats not often the case.
I didn't know more than probably 1-2 scales, 1 octave after one year of playing. I didn't understand anything, i was very ignorant to music and all that involves it, and sometimes i feel like i still am when i see world reknowned professionals on any instrument play. Whoa almost went into a tangent there. anyway, the person who was first chair my 9th and 10th grade year had only been playing since his 10th grade year! He was very talented and he worked hard at it too. Albeit he played flute before so he understood music, but still, he hadn't been playing for too long. I'm just saying keep it up and youll do well. I'll shut up now.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-09-24 03:45
psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't ask) said:
> everyone wants to make first chair, right? That's everyone's goal in life
Not everyone's...
Your long term goal should be to play musically and expressively, up to your maximum potential. That is what brings the most lasting enjoyment.
Five years from now, you will see how meaningless "first chair", "second chair" or thirteenth chair" really is.
An ensemble is a team effort. Check your ego at the door.
>Any tips or advice on how to improve would be greatly appreciated
Weekly private lessons ...GBK
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-09-24 04:07
Yes, I would agree with GBK's comments.
There is a lot more to (musical) life than just getting through high school and plenty of egotists to contend with later on, so there is no need to foster this attitude in your early years.
Perhaps you could replace your desire to gain ''first chair'' with a desire to become the best player you possibly can. From your message, it seems you have a deal to work on anyway.
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-09-24 04:24
Yeah... I'm taking private lessons, and I'm just sick and tired of everyone fighting over first chair... It's not that I majorly want it or anything, other than to make them shut up and stop acting like they're so superior to me... If anything they should encourage, not discourage...
But ya'll are right, playing musically for the enjoyment of it all is more important... It's just kinda hard to do that when you have so many people criticising you because you're too "sharp" or "flat" or whatever the case may be... Granted I do have off days, as do they, I generally know when I'm out of tune or I sound bad... And their criticism doesn't help a bit... But oh well... I played piano for a year before I started playing clarinet, so I know how to read music well and all that... Anyways I guess I'll just try my best and see how it works out... and if I happen to make it, then I will post it on this board... haha...
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-09-24 09:21
The chair thing matters more in high school than it does in adult life--and clarinetists can be a backbiting bunch.
I would venture that most first-chair players have deeper goals in mind (see GBK's comments) than the chair itself. Their status as first-chair players is simply incidental to the efforts that they make at music in general.
I put my private students through a series of technical and theory competencies whose goal is free them from obstacles and thus open them up as musicians. The goal that I try to instill is one of making music a satisfying pastime. This means playing well in all keys, reading music well at sight, a generating some emotional satisfaction for the listener. It also means maintaining certain skills that command the respect of ensemble conductors and fellow musicians. This actually imposes a more stringent standard than simply being the best in your class. Whether it leads to a first chair simply depends on how many folks are meeting these goals.
AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THOSE GOALS, most of my more earnest students are first-chair players in their schools, and are admitted to more elite All-County, All-District, etc. groups. This year, I had the #1 alto and #1 tenor saxes in the district, as well as some close runners up. Most of what got them to that point was simply trying to learn enough to engage in jazz improvisation. It was that task--rather than chair-envy--that accounts for most of their skills.
Be the best musician you can be, and most of that chair stuff will work itself out.
Allen Cole
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Author: starlight
Date: 2004-09-24 12:44
i am a senior in highschool now, and i was first chair in both my junior year and this year, i hate to say this but many times it's not the acutal playing ability or level that gets you the chair, as sometimes other factors are involved. For example, if everyone in the section hates you and despises you, if i would the band director, i wouldn't give that person first chair (even if that person is the best in terms of playing), because it'll just "ruin" the whole clainret section. relationships with the band director matters a lot too. but if you do want first chair, really fight for it, somehow playing high notes (above c with two ledger lines) impresses the band director
seniority is another issue. personally, i believe in that.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-09-24 12:58
Hi,
I believe that a truer measure of your playing ability when you are in HS is how well you do at solo contest.
You prepare a solo from a standard list, you play before a judge who also asks you for scales including chromatic, and you get a rating. Knock out several Class A Superior ratings and I would suspect you are on your way (and the applicaiton nevers asks what chair you sit in).
In the past several years, I have played in several symphonic wind ensembles in which several players could have been principal. Some of the seconds could play first - but not all. In the adult world, we don't get too excited about seating but if you are not playing in tune, don't observe dynamics, or are not hacking your parts, expect to hear about it from some of the better players - and they can do all these things.
HRL
Post Edited (2004-09-24 14:43)
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Author: Dori
Date: 2004-09-24 13:03
Psych girl, it's good to have a goal, but if you have only been playing for a year don't be so hard on yourself. That's too short a time for anyone to learn everything, especially if this is your first wind instrument.
The most dramatic improvements will be made in the early years. So to answer your question: Yes, experience counts in the sense that it takes time for your technique to develop. You are on the right track by recognizing the things you need to work on and having a teacher to guide you. This should help you progress faster.
Keep in mind that eventually upperclassmen graduate and underclassmen become upperclassmen. Your time will come. Don't be in a rush to push people out of your way, especially when you aren't yet ready to challege them. That could be a reason others were negative towards you.
Keep practicing, keep a good atttitude, and good luck (which you won't need if you do the first two).
Dori
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2004-09-24 13:34
With the expert advice that has been given to you here you really can't fail. I have tremendous confidence in you and wish you extreme success.
jmsa
Post Edited (2004-09-24 13:35)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-09-24 14:32
Wishing you luck and success, humility and grace....
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2004-09-24 15:14
Way, way back in High School Land,
I was the first chair in the band.
My family was quite poor, you see.
They had no cash to spend on ME --
No lessons, books, good reeds, and such --
they didn't encourage me all that much.
But every night, despite their scorn,
I worked for hours with my horn;
played scales in whole note, half, and quarter,
eighth and sixteenth, in that order --
slurred and tongued, I did them all,
feet well-planted, sitting tall.
To give myself a running start,
I memorized the fingering chart --
Chromatic, alternate, low to high.
Before too long, boy, I could fly!
Altissimo to chalumeau --
There was no place I couldn't go!
And then, because I was no fool,
I brought my music home from school
(a practice which I much commend)
And learned each piece from start to end.
So when I went to band next day,
I was the one who could always play
Whatever the director chose,
whatever circumstance arose.
If I could do it, you can, too!
Your music-love will see you through.
There's really not much mystery to it :
The way to first chair is to DO IT!
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-09-24 20:17
HAHA! That's awesome... thanks for y'alls advice... It's just that our school has only existed for three years and there are only three clarinets above me and they all compete against each other and hate each other to some degree... I guess I kinda figured I'd get in the game, and that's probably why they act the way they do towards me (because that's the way they act towards each other)... And first chair wouldn't matter so much if my band director reccomended me for honor bands and wind ensembles and stuff anyways... But he goes by chair placement, and I want to be in those kinds of things every chance I can get... Who knows... oh well, guess I just have to DO IT! hehe...
Post Edited (2004-09-24 20:44)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-09-24 21:02
I think that your goal of getting into more elite playing experiences is a very worthy one. If you are not on your band director's A-list for these things, then perhaps you should investigate some things of your own. Perhaps there are community or church groups that could give you some more advanced experience. If so, find out what qualifications you need and make those an immediate goal. Another experience worth pursuing might be to get together with some of these strong players you told us about, and try some chamber music.
As for technical specifics towards that end:
1 - Try to get all your major scales to 2 octaves, and on E, F, F# and G go for 3 if you can.
2 - Get started on your sight-reading. That's what takes the longest to develop. What this really means as that you need to learn rhtythm to a high degree of polish. Reading rhythm and keeping time are the essence of sightreading.
Strong scales show judges and music directors that you care enough to practice. Good sightreading shows that you are a quick study and helps you cope with the unexpected. Strong rhythm will do much to keep your fingers coordinated and hopefully squeeking.
If these rivals of yours are good players, remember that as a developing musician, your closest rival is really your best friend in a lot of ways. Do what you can to turn rivalry into partnership, and you will have a very satisfying life as a musician. A group of good players can serve to reward inspire each other towards even greater degrees of advancement.
Good luck in your endeavors, but if it doesn't come your way....make your OWN luck!
Allen Cole
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-09-24 21:14
From the way you describe the people ahead of you, it sounds like they are total jerks. it doesn't matter how good a person is, doesnt give eman excuse to be rude. Ignore any nonsense that goes on, or watch and learn what not to do.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-09-24 22:38
I quite dislike first chair. Too much responsibility.
Give me second chair of any section (first, second, third) any day, or perhaps the top of the third section. In those chairs, you are allowed to blend into the sound and enjoy the ensemble without as much stress.
At the moment I'm playing at the top of the second clarinets in my ensemble, which is probably the most important spot, as it's the top of the listening food chain for all the 2nds and 3rds. (firsts are in their own little world in the front). It's great experience, but it's dangerous :P
As for advice, "Listen" is the best I can give you in the long run. If you are at the top of a section, listen to the rest of the ensemble to see where you fit in. If you are within the section, listen to the person one chair above you and become a part of their sound.
Edit: typo
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
Post Edited (2004-09-24 22:38)
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Author: Camanda
Date: 2004-09-24 23:36
I'm just happy to be in band, period. I'd be happy to be last chair. Not if I played like I do, and the rest of my section played like they do, but you know what I mean. And I suppose it's important, to an extent, that I sit where I do, since I plan on being a music ed major, and getting used to the stuff my director puts in front of me is a big help with my sight-reading and my technique.
My band director stresses how important the inner voicings are, and that they have to be there or the first part won't sound any good. I know, I played third clarinet for two and a half years. I absolutely loved it. I loved to hear the harmony and I loved to know I was supporting my section. That's why I'm attached to the bass clarinet.
I've still had to handle a load of responsibilities, chair aside. Being the secretary for the Band Council also puts me in charge of the uniform closet (yay), but as far as the clarinet goes, I just share the whole leadership thing with my section leader. She takes care of half, I take care of half. I ask her stuff, she asks me stuff. It's nice the way we have it worked out. Having four first players over one second and three thirds was not a good balance. I like having it go 2-3-3 a lot more.
A fine example of enjoying a low part more than a high one. We did William Byrd Suite last year; I played first part alone, my stand partner had solo. There's a line in the first movement where the first clarinetist and the alto and tenor saxes play in unison. I was the only one out of nine musicians who could play the line. I did it alone every rehearsal and went through it several times with the others until about two weeks before the concert. Meanwhile, my stand partner would sulk while we played. My band director asked her what was wrong, and she said, "That's more fun than my part!" He replied, "You have melody." She said, "So? It's boring!" And my part was, in fact, more fun!
I don't take lessons, either, and there's no way I can do so until my parents figure out I need them. What really has helped me get as far as I have is listening. I listen to a lot of professionals, and I listen to a lot of music in general. I pick up on things and remember them when I find them in my playing. Being a vocalist helps tremendously, I must say. As far as sight-reading, you can break up the rhythms that bug you over smaller parts of the beat. Dotted eighth-sixteenth matched over sixteenth notes is one example: three, one, three, one (ooops, left this one out!), three, one, three, one. I admit that I have to learn from rote once in a while, but when I do that, I end up remembering what I learned and apply it later.
This is long winded and has little to no information, so I believe hitting "Post" is the step I take at this point. Good luck!
Amanda Cournoyer
URI Clarinet Ensemble, Bass Clarinet
Post Edited (2004-09-25 11:33)
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2004-09-24 23:57
I didn't like first chair much. Very, very hard work. I liked playing second or even third. Could kind of hide in the background that way.
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2004-09-25 00:04
Actually in clarinet choir music the second part is often far more challenging than the first. I play that part, and I wouldn't willingly trade it away. Of course, any band music I've seen has the first playing all the fun stuff. But it's a lot of responsibility, too.
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2004-09-25 02:43
Love the poem ohsuzan!
Much good advice here. Some things just take time to develop. I'm one of the slightly older returnee's to playing and am just now, after 4 years of private lessons since returning to the clarinet, finding expressive skills that I know that I never had when I was a high school band member.
As your skills develop you'll probably find that you enjoy playing much more which will cause you to practice more which will cause you to keep growing as a musician.
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-09-25 03:11
I personally love being first chair and band and principle in the youth symphony. Maybe its because im just slightly egotistical and like to play solos, but thats just me. Having the melody is quite fun. But my first semester id say of being first chair was a little stressful because i simply wasnt used to having the resonsibility. But after over a year of it, i quite enjoy it.
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Author: huggles
Date: 2004-09-25 04:11
mkybrain wrote: But you would be surprised how little many high school(casual) clarinet players know.
im in senior high school and i attend a music school. i would like to say, there are kids out there you dont kno of that will really shock you in how much they kno and their standard of playing.
also, for psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't ask), being first chair isnt everything. in an orchestra, being first chair simply means there is more chance of you getting a solo, or a more 'finger-moving' part.. that doesnt mean second chair is any worse.. seeing as you've only played for a year, you shouldn't expect yourself to fly that high so quickly. second chair, aswell as third chair etc.. is just as important as first. in an orchestra or any ensemble, its about teamwork and what you present as a whole. its about the harmony and tonal support.
about your evaluation on your playing, it is important to get squeaks out of the way, and get tongueing happening well. Sight reading is very important for a muso, and scales are essential. If you want to play music, you need your scales, and expression.. harmony is also very important to understanding how the music which you play works and if you can't perform with comfort and relaxation in front of everyone including your band director, i dont know how you can be first chair. im not trying to discourage you, or put you down.. im just telling you what reality is like.
an evaluation on my playing:
tone is clear and projected
i perform regularly in front of different audiences
tongueing is fast
expressive and emotional playing
i understand the piece im playing, which helps create the effect the composer intended for the piece
i can sightread
i hardly squeak.. if i do, its because of the poor reeds i use
and i kno all my scales (major, harmonic minor, melodic minor, natural minor), arpeggios, inversions, diminished and dominant sevenths, chromatics on any note, 3rds, etc..
even with all that i dont expect to get first chair anywhere.. its all about the conductor, director.. and if you truely think you have everything it takes to be first chair, then you have a debate about it..
Post Edited (2004-09-25 04:13)
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Author: Don Spark
Date: 2004-09-25 04:21
Hi, Mary--
I'm not Don, I'm his friend and just noticed your message sitting right here on his screen. He wouldn't be able to respond anyway, because he never went through what you're going through (and what I went through more than 40 years ago).
What I did was practice scales and alternates so much my mother went berserk, screamed at me, and just practically admitted she'd NEVER LIKED ME anyway. It's ok, first chair is worth it. At my 30th high school reunion two guys that I beat out for first chair were still whining. It gave me a lovely warm, powerful feeling!
I hope your band director is doing the tryouts "blind"--so he doesn't see who is playing, you have to be behind a screen or something. It 's easier to play well when no one is looking, anyway, and it's a lot more fair.
Tonguing is concentration and practice. It gets sloppy when you're tired, too. If you have to play something with a bunch of eighth notes real fast, practice it sloooowly, then increase your speed. For God's sake, breathe. Rest when your tongue gets limp. Ignore your mother's screaming; she never liked you, anyway.
Love, Cynthia
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-09-25 04:42
she never liked you? that's sad...
Thanks for all the advice you guys... Actually joining a church orchestra or something is not a bad idea, something I'll look into... And my band director is judging the tryouts "blind", but even so he can tell from our playing who is playing what... So if he hears someone better and knows from the style of playing who it is, and then hears someone worse and knows who they are from their playing, then if he's biased (which I'm not quite sure of) he'll pick whichever is his class pet or upperclassmen.... Oh well...
Haha, you know what would be funny... If I made last chair but made all-state... hehe... I don't like third part, I'm getting tired of it... I don't really care about first part too much, second part is almost the same... But I was on second part, and somehow or another they demoted me to third because they are upper classmen and I have to do as they say... Third is boring... oh well...
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-09-25 04:49
huggles, dont get me wrong, i know there are many phenominal players out there, but have u ever went to a public normal highscool and heard the clarinet players who are in band just to be in band. Notice how i said the CASUAL player, not COMPETITIVE. Don't mistake me, I know there are excellent players, but there are also people who dont take private lessons and never practice and don't really undestand how the clarinet is supposed to sound. However, notice how i was the first to post, and in her first post, she didn't mention how there were only 4 players ahead of her and that they are constantly trying to grab first chair, if i had known this information, i might have not said excatly what i had said. I took it to mean that she was in a normal public school with many clarinet players, and that the majority are concerned with other things besides music. I trule meant no offense to yourself, i am a senior in highschool too, and trust me i have seen awsome players, but i've also seen the players who honestly couldn't care less how well the played, not that there is anything wrong with that for them.
btw, good for you if ur self-evalution is an honest one
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-09-25 05:03
there are 5 clarinet players (me being one of them), only 3 ahead of me... I already beat out the one as you described above who is not competetive, doesn't practice, and doesn't really care (although he used to until he got auditionophobia)... The upperclassmen clarinet players aren't exactly jerks, but their words can be hurtful sometimes... For instance tonight in marching band, this one girl always points out my mistakes and no one elses... We had a really slow song and the whole band was a full beat behind... and after the show she's like, "Mary never do that again, I will kill you if you do"... I didn't even know what I did, I was playing with the rest of the band and the WHOLE band was playing a full beat behind the majors.. I admit, I screwed up. only had the crappiest stuffiest reed in the whole world and was out of tune and off tempo, but why does she always blame stuff on me when I wasn't the only clarinet that messed up... And as if she had a perfect show, I don't think so... AH! it's all so frustrating... Oh well...
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-09-25 05:08
sometimes i say jokes that might be taken in a not so joking manor to freshman in my band, honestly they might be joking, or giving you a hard time because the wnat you to do well
but yea, often upper classmen get caught up with trying to fix other younger peoples mistakes and ignoring their own, its quite anoying..dont worry, ull be an upperclassman in two years, and then you cna boss people around too
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-09-25 05:39
But if I boss people around then I'll be annoying... I boss freshmen around just as much as they boss me around, just stating simple mistakes... But always blaming it on one person is cruel...
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-09-25 06:35
ull understand when ur a senior, i remember just recently, as in friday night, talking about a senior my freshman year that was sucha jerk, and the girl i was talking to pointed out that i am just the same way he was now that i am a senior, which is obviously quite ironic, he yelled at all the freshman, so do i, his name was chris, so is mine, etc...it was a little strange for me to realize it, sorta like how people realize they're becoming their parents, but not that intimate
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Author: Dragonpuppy
Date: 2004-09-25 12:00
At my high school, the teacher doesn't say that there is first chair, second, third, etc. but I can tell it exists. Some people who get to play first part sometimes have their head stuck up a little higher but I don't really get why its so important to play #1!
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Author: vin
Date: 2004-09-25 15:32
Practice your tail off, listen to great music, take lessons with the best teachers you can, have fun, ignore silly people and follow the rest of GBK's advice. Then, when you are good enough, audition for a youth orchestra and you'll have a lot fewer clarinetists to deal with!
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-09-25 18:42
" only had the crappiest stuffiest reed in the whole world and was out of tune and off tempo, but why does she always blame stuff on me..."
You answered your own question. Also, I'm taking a stab in the dark here, but it might be that you make a bigger deal about such things than other people. Also, it's a lot more justified to pick on someone who picks on other people's mistakes.
You don't like third part???? You're obviously not treating it properly. Playing third can be incredibly fun and valuable... the demands on fingering are usually not so great, so you are free to completely concentrate on dynamics, phrase shaping, style, INTONATION, and forward motion. Unfortunately, most third players, especially at the high school level, don't like the third parts because they're "too easy." In the top ensemble of the three at my university, there was always something I could improve on my third part playing.
The third parts, due to their low, not-in-your-face range, require extra volume and dynamic contrast to be properly heard in an ensemble. Actually, your dissatisfaction is causing a missed opportunity to bring out the third part in an ensemble, a part that is so often neglected and allowed to die into the wash.
If you are bossing people around, giving them a hard time about missed notes and the such, you should expect people to give you a hard time as well.
If anything, the top three players in a wind ensemble would ideally lead the first, second, and third parts, with perhaps the fourth-best player occupying the "second chair".
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-09-25 23:31
ok... basically I was kinda out of their social group and never talk (now I'm kinda making some kinda connection with them, they still confuse me), and I don't boss anyone around about missed notes or being out of tune... Just in marching band, I point to the freshmen's dots if they miss it to help them out (which is a form of bossing around)... That is the extent of me bossing people around... and when I said that, I also said that the whole band was like that... I wasn't the only one, and yet I was the only one getting blamed by her (and I asked everyone else if the slowing down thing in the clarinet section was my fault and they said that it was everyone's because everyone messed up... So how can she just blame it on me when she could talk to the section as a whole..) I don't like third part on lower grade music such as grade 3 and grade 4 (although some grade 4 music can be fun to play, but a lot of it is easy when I want to be challenged)... a lot of my music just has half notes quarter notes and whole notes, not very exciting... Although there are small parts that have 8th and possibly 16th notes...I do concentrate on dynamics, phrase shaping, style, INTONATION, and forward motion but oh well I guess you would have to evaluate that for yourself...
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-09-26 00:36
Au contraire... the most challenging music is often that which is, on the surface, easy to play. However, it's taken me a few different teachers and years of college ensembles to really realize that (spend a half hour fine-tuning a slow chorale, things start to make sense).
Perhaps you take things too personally. They throw a comment your way, and rather than take the advice and try to fix it, you fix it in a "I'll show them!" way with a bit of attitude. This attitude, in turn, elicit more comments to come your way. If you're buried in the 3rd section, they shouldn't be able to pick your sound out individually anyways, so perhaps you've made a target of yourself.
Food for thought to hold you over: If you can hear yourself (in most contexts), you're likely out of tune, most probably a bit sharp. Pull out and settle in.
In college, in my experience, there's more focus on doing what's best for the ensemble. It's expected that you'll be able to play your parts. Wrong notes upset the director and the ensemble as a whole, in a "we can do better than that!" way, rather than "you screwed up." In a good ensemble, each part in the entire ensemble (especially the 3rd clarinets) is valued and respected... if your part didn't matter, it wouldn't have been written in the first place.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-09-26 04:04
Yeah I guess I do take things personally... It's just how I've always been and something I should probably stop doing where I don't go home crying or sad because of something stupid... Although just to prove that I think they have something against me, or at least the first chair person, I have a story... Back in marching band last year I had to fill in the clarinet spot for the clarinet player who dropped out... I had never played a wind instrument before and wasn't at band camp, so I had to learn to play and march all the dots in a couple of weeks or so... I could semi-play, not very well about 2 weeks into it... but I'd only been playing about 2-3 months and the first chair clarinet player said you should know all your dots and all your music and be able to march and play at the same time (SHE WAS SAYING THIS WHEN SHE COULDN'T EVEN MARCH AND PLAY AT THE SAME TIME!) I mean I knew all my marching band music and could play it (and I was working so hard on it) and I knew all of my dots, but I just couldn't put them together ( although I did play whenever I could without getting my feet majorly out of time)... so right as I had been working so hard she's like that's not good enough... AH! IT'S ALL SO FRUSTRATING, WHY DO YOU HAVE TO PICK ON THE NEW PERSON WHO JUST JOINED! And I developed a certain hate for her, and I told myself I was going to march and play better than she does and make first chair and beat her out... And the weird thing is, is that this year she is not the one bossing me around so much because I can march better than her and play better than her, in my opinion. (I have no clue how she made first chair when the other two clarinet player and me obviously have better tone quality)... But one of the clarinets went to be a drum major, and he was the bossiest one of them all, so I was glad... But now his sister, who is also in my section, kinda blames everything on me... Not sure why, when we have a freshmen to blame everything on (that was kinda mean), but maybe I'm just paranoid... oh well... that's my story...
In college you play higher level music with better third parts than in high school, right? I dunno, I just see the other music and play it, and I think that sounds cool to play... But I don't get to play it, because they're like NO you can't play high notes because you're third part so you're not allowed to play high notes... they won't even let me play high notes in warm ups, like scales and stuff up an octave... it's so annoying, why are they restricting me when they know I can do it... Besides who made them the boss... ah... it's all so frustrating...
Post Edited (2004-09-26 04:08)
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Author: Andrewcn
Date: 2004-09-26 04:55
I'm happy sitting back in second.
Less glory, but less pressure
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-09-26 05:13
I found that higher chairs are easier to make if you don't get caught up in thinking that it's a chair test. Once I stopped getting so worked up about it, I jumped up about three or four chair positions.
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-09-26 05:59
now, u assume there is pressure in first chair.....there is only pressure if you believe that pressure is important
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Author: Dori
Date: 2004-09-26 06:02
I've been thinking about your situation quite a bit, Psych girl, because I've been there numerous times in the past 38 years - and on both sides. From personal experience I understand your frustration of being stuck on a lower part when you know you can play 1st or 2nd. Since all parts are important, someone has to play 3rd to keep the section balanced. Other posters have given you the best advice: work on your part so it is the best that it can be (even a page of whole notes needs attention to sound musical). This will earn the respect of your bandmates far more than insisting you can handle a higher part.
You have said your bandmates are always harshly criticizing you. As I read your posts, IMHO much of this is because you have less experience than many of them, a fact of which they may not be aware and certainly are not taking into consideration. I am not in any way excusing their behavior, but I wonder what would have been said, for example, if they knew you had not been at Marching Band Camp or had ever marched before. I certainly would expect better overall playing from someone with 3 or 4 years experience compare to one year.
So here is my advice psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't ask): When someone points out your mistake, hold your temper and say as politely as you can, "I know I make a lot of mistakes, but I've only been playing for a year and am trying to improve. Could you explain what I did wrong and how to do it correctly?". Even better, before you get any complaints, ask someone to help you with a difficult phrase or verfy that you have it right. By acknowledging you are willing to learn from them, hopefully they will become more supportive and less antagonistic.
If all else fails, hold your temper and come to this board to vent. I will always be happy to listen. You have a great attitude to succeed and I hope you will enjoy the experience as you progress.
Dori (Who has been at both the top and bottom of the clarinet section)
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Author: WinJ
Date: 2004-09-26 16:41
I have to say, making first chair is nice. But what I've found out is that (as many other people have said) 2nd and 3rd parts can be fun too. For most my years I've played first part, and most recently, I made 3rd part in my school's top ensemble...and it's really a nice change.
I absolutely love playing the lower range that you don't touch too often in 1st part and jazz.
-Winnie^_^
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Author: Iacuras
Date: 2004-09-26 17:25
Personally, I love playing second and third parts, that's one of the reasons I switched to Bass Clarinet. The parts are much more like second and third part, but some songs you get a great chance at the melody.
Steve
"If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon."
"If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly."
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-09-26 18:28
The more composition and orchestration classes I take (and scores I look at), the more I realize... the melody and bass line will always be there in one form or another. The inner parts are what define the music.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-09-26 20:30
thanks Dori, that helps... But that was last year, and they did know (last year) that I didn't go to band camp and had just started... I guess they got frustrated with me, and took their anger for lack of success out on me... But oh well, they're not nearly as bad as they were last year... Last year they made me so mad/sad I went home in tears, but this year it's not so bad... I just have to get used to their bickering again, especially the two section leaders (sometimes I'm scared they're going to hurt each other, they're always fighting over the clarinet solo)
OOH!! I have a funny story to tell... While the two section leaders are fighting over the clarinet solo, the bass clarinet player we have plays it during rehearsal while we're marching... It was so funny, because it sounded so beautiful when he played, and really should go to him... Although the one section leader that didn't get the solo sounds better than the one who actually got it, it should still go to the bass clarinet... hehe... That would be awesome... just thought I'd share that with y'all...
It's going to be a long year though, I can tell already... I'm getting ready for some competition... But I finally realized that the only reason I'm still playing clarinet is for this one clarinet player that slacks off... He's the only person who encourages me in my section... That's kinda sad, but I'm glad he's there... I guess the first chair people get kind of lonely sitting all by themselves at the end of the section.. hm.... maybe it's my choice, I choose what I want... So if I want to stay where I am, I do really bad at my chair placement test... And then I'll go to mid-state/all-state auditions and make all-state... and then they would be like, how did you do that when we're "better" than you... And I would say, hehe all part of my little scheme of things... THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!!! Seriously, I might do that... hehe... Well anyways, this is all I have to type for now...
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-09-27 02:34
im one of 3 section leaders, and the other two are girls, so when it comes to marching, i keep my mouth shut, the music itself is a different story.
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Author: starlight
Date: 2004-09-27 07:53
psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't ask) ,
first chair ? you may be able to play first or second parts, but so can other people, right? Expereince does count. IMHO, i think you're sounding a little bit too competitive. Yes, competition supposedly improves your mastery on the clairnet, but band isn't only about getting the first chair, getting the solo or being section leader or something. It's also about enjoying the music AND having a good time with your fellow clarinet mates. Afterall if you do get first chair, but the rest of the section despises you, i don't think that would be very fun, would it?
cheers.
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Author: ginny
Date: 2004-09-27 22:05
My son is first chair in his high school's top band and was last year as well. He was last chair as a soph and didn't mind at all. He played the third parts well and happily took on bass clarinet when it was needed in youth orchestra. He never seems all that competitive, although he is determined to do a good job at all he takes on. Third chair placed higher in county honor band last year and he told me that there was no shame for him in being 'bested' by her, because she is a very fine player. He has told me that worrying about who was better simply got in the way of his concentrating on important things, like playing and getting better. I must say I am one very proud mommy and not just about his fine playing, but about his level headedness.
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-09-27 22:23
Sounds like some bands in America are full of cat-fighting-time-wasters. I'm afraid I had quite a different experience in Australia. My band life was very calm and very devoted to excellent music making. The school band I played in spent a week year with the Royal Austrailan Army or Navy band for mentoring (depending on which one was in Sydney at the time). We had a lot of respect for their professional skills and learned a lot from them. By the way, we didn't audition for first or second chair ... the band director made those appointments (90% of the time very wisely) AND we didn't whinge or moan if we were not playing first - we just accepted it. If you really hate the bitchyness of playing 1st, 2nd or 3rd chair them pick up an eflat (soprano) clarinet and sit by yourself, you'll also be guaranteed of getting some nice parts, too.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
Post Edited (2004-09-27 22:23)
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Author: Camanda
Date: 2004-09-27 22:38
We're doing Ed Huckeby's "And We Proceeded On" in Wind Ensemble. Here's another example for you. We have a two-person divisi later in the song. The top is half comprised of the cue for an oboe solo, and the other half has many runs and slightly more complex rhythms. The bottom is entirely half, quarter, and eighth notes. I feel the bottom, my part, is in fact harder. You try tuning throat tones with the bass clarinet player and see how that goes.
Amanda Cournoyer
URI Clarinet Ensemble, Bass Clarinet
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-09-27 23:35
I've been thinking a little bit, and maybe I just want to make first chair so I'll be respected by the upper classmen instead of looked down upon... I can't have any fun playing around them, they always critique me and tell me what I'm doing wrong (when in all reality, I know what I'm doing wrong and they don't have to tell me... I usually figure it out and fix it anyways... Which is one reason it's so annoying)... I mean I know a lot of things they're doing wrong, but I don't DARE tell them what they're doing wrong... Been there done that, and they don't really respect my opinions because I've only been playing for a year... But the information I have learned, I have put to use in my playing... And I don't want to wait till I'm a senior to earn respect from my peers... I dunno... I just don't fit in with the upper classmen and I guess I never will... Maybe I should switch to something like oboe or bassoon... The guy I like plays bassoon, maybe I'll switch to bassoon just so i can sit by him... hehe... that was stupid but oh well...
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Author: Neil
Date: 2004-09-28 01:28
Aloha Mary,
People who don't respect you to begin with will probably never respect you for your accomplishments. If you make first chair over them they will likely ascribe it to luck or favoritism. Life shouldn't be like that but it is. It won't hurt to get proficient on the other woodwinds but I can't tell you at what point you should branch out. The bassoonist might not think it's stupid for you to take up bassoon. Above all remember that music should enrich our lives, whether we listen or play.
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-09-28 01:30
If you really want them to respect you, get a copy of their music and start playing it an octave higher. Oh wait, did I say respect? I meant to make them utterly annoyed at you.
-Contra, who is glad the people that did that moved away
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