 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2007-03-08 00:06
Hello all
My C clarinet has good pitch overall but is conspicuously flat on the long B and C (and the low E and F).
I hope this problem can be addressed by shortening the bell or enlarging the resonance hole already in the bell (24mm from the top of the bell).
My C clarinet's bell is 92 mm (which does not seem overly long since my Eb clarinet's bell is 76mm and my D clarinet's bell is 81mm).
Firstly, does anyone have any experience enlarging a resonance hole in the bell to raise the pitch of the nearby notes (long B and C)?
Secondly does anyone have any experience with the more invasive notion of shortening the bell to raise those notes?
Thanks in advance.
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Simon Aldrich
Clarinet Faculty - McGill University
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre Metropolitain de Montreal
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre de l'Opera de Montreal
Clarinet - Nouvel Ensemble Moderne
Buffet-Crampon Artist/Clinician
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-08 00:48
I've got a bell David Spiegelthal sent me to try out (with a resonance hole in it) as I'm having the same tuning problems on my Series 9 pair.
I'm currently altering the interior of the bell to make it more like the Series 9, but as it's an ebonite bell it's taking some doing!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-03-08 01:14
If your long "B" and "C" are flat the first thing you want to do is to undercut E/B and F/C tone holes to bring these notes up to pitch. This procedure also will raise the "E" and "F". You must tune the "B" and "C" only and NOT the E-F.
Note: On the regular Boehm F/C notes are affected by the lowest RH tone hole on the LJ and the E/B is affected by the bell which is a tone hole for E/B.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2007-03-08 15:25)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-08 06:45
Vytas, just to make sure I undersatnd, are you saying undercutting the C/F hole raises the note eventhough the key is closed? I thought that if anything, undercutting this hole (i.e. making the total volume of air inside the clarinet slightly bigger) will make this note a tiny bit flatter (but too small difference to notice so insignificant).
You also say: "This procedure also will raise the "E" and "F". You must tune the "B" and "C" only and NOT the E-F."
According to Simon the low E and F notes are also too flat so in this case he WANTS to make these notes sharper too, no?
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Author: Dan Oberlin ★2017
Date: 2007-03-08 11:17
Tom Ridenour suggests that if the long B is flat (mine isn't), one can raise
it by opening the throat A key.
D.O.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-03-08 14:08
>*** "Vytas- wouldn't undercutting the F/C hole raise the G/D notes"? *** <
You're thinking like a player and not like a technician/acoustician. A technician looks for a tone hole that affects a particular note(s). On the regular Boehm F/C notes are affected by the lowest RH tone hole on the LJ and the E/B is affected by the bell which is a tone hole for E/B.
Undercutting raises the pitch of the note. "Undercutting" means enlarging the lower/bottom part (bore side) of the tone hole without changing diameter of the tone hole on the top.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2007-03-08 14:55)
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-03-08 14:31
> *** "Vytas, just to make sure I undersatnd", *** <
No, you don't understand.
I said: 'This procedure also will raise the "E" and "F". You must tune the "B" and "C" only and NOT the E-F'.
If you raise the pitch of the fundamental you'll automatically raise the pitch of the corresponding twelfth. In this particular case you must tune the "B" and "C" only but NOT the E-F. If you tune the "E" and "F" you will end up with the "B" and "C" that are too sharp and will mess up the entire tuning scheme of the clarinet.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-03-08 14:53
Vytas-
so you mean that undercutting the E hole will raise the pitch of the E and B? even though the pad is closed for thoes notes?
-S
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-03-08 15:05
Claribass,
One way to think of the effect of undercutting a tone hole is this:
Think of the little cylinder of air in the tonehole. It has mass, and as the air in the bore below it vibrates, the air in the tone hole moves in and out of the hole like a tiny, light piston. (It also compresses and expands a bit, but that happens really fast for the frequencies generated by a clarinet.
The moving mass of air lowers the pitch of the instrument because it resists being accelerated by the vibrating air column
By cutting a conical space under the tone hole, the length of the little slug of air in the tone hole is reduced, making it lighter and allowing it to move faster. This raises the pitch of the note(s) corresponding to that tone hole --and probably also the pitch of the next one or two notes above it.
I'd put this operation (and all that "take wood" from the instrument) to be work that you NOT TRY AT HOME.
Dan,
The trick of opening the left hand G# or A key while playing low B on my Buffet improves the sound of the note, but doesn't much affect the pitch.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-03-08 15:06
> *** "so you mean that undercutting the E hole will raise the pitch of the E and B? even though the pad is closed for thoes notes? *** <
The E/B is affected by the bell which is a tone hole for E/B on the regular Boehm. I explained that in my postings above.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-08 15:30
"On the regular Boehm F/C notes are affected by the lowest RH tone hole on the LJ and the E/B is affected by the bell which is a tone hole for E/B."
"If your long "B" and "C" are flat the first thing you want to do is to undercut E/B and F/C tone holes"
So what you mean, according to what you said above, is to undercut the tone hole that is the bell hole and the last tone hole before the bell, right?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-03-08 16:16
I would try the simplest solution first: undercut (and bevel the exit side of) the resonance hole in the bell, maybe even enlarging the main part of the hole as well.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-03-08 19:00
> *** I would try the simplest solution first: undercut (and bevel the exit side of) the resonance hole in the bell, maybe even enlarging the main part of the hole as well. *** <
Yes, but it all depends on the circumstances:
1. If the long B is flat and stuffy then the best solution is to enlarge/undercut the choke part in the bell.
2. If the long B (and C) is flat but isn't stuffy then the best solution would be to shorten the bell.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Wes
Date: 2007-03-09 06:33
One can raise the low E and the clarion B by cutting or enlarging a hole in the bell, but I've also done this by increasing the inner diameter of the bell by grinding it well into its outward curve, not near the ring. This is not easy to describe.
The late Glen Johnston drilled a hole in my C clarinet bell and shortened my Bb clarinet bell by a ring width both to improve the bell tone pitches. He also used a special large reamer to enlarge the inside of the bell where it did the most good to raise the bell tones pitches.
I make no recommendations as this is specialist work to be done by an experienced clarinet tuner. Good luck!
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