 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: J-MB
Date: 2017-06-26 01:48
Ive had a recent audition with a bunch of talented clarinetists. I didn't do as well as i have wanted on the audition and I ended up low in the ensemble. I am grateful of the opportunity I was given to play but I was dissapointed in my placement. I am taking this really hard and some clarinets there did tell me that i knew nothing. How do i comeback from this besides practicing harder?
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Author: Justin Willsey ★2017
Date: 2017-06-26 02:35
So sorry to hear this. I'm especially appalled by the behavior of your section mates. Without knowing the context of your grade level, experience, etc. I would suggest
-Studying with a great private teacher, if you're not already with one. When you feel ready, take a bit of time to reflect on what could have been better about your audition, and about how you prepared for it. In the long run, it can be a great learning experience.
-Embrace your role in the ensemble. Prepare as best you can on the parts given to you. They are important! You can learn a lot by committing yourself to that music, and by working on it on a regular basis. I don't know if I'd call it practicing "harder" as much as "smarter" and "regularly." See what kind of momentum you can gain by working on a particular piece or passage from day to day. Again, let a teacher guide you.
-It may also help to dust off a book or piece that you just love and have fun with, to reconnect with why we play in the first place.
We've all had setbacks and disappointments. Sometimes it helps me to remind myself that even the great jazz saxophonist Charlie Parker had some public embarrassments at jam sessions in his earlier years. He wound up being an astonishing virtuoso.
Hang in there and good luck!
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-06-26 06:28
So, you probably wish you had auditioned better, placed better, and weren't subject to redicule.
I think the key to you dealing with this is too fold: acceptance and independence.
Acceptance: you will have bad auditions/practice days/rehearsals/performances. This is part of not only being a musician, but life itself.
How could you ever have a good/great day if you never had a so-so or mediocre one?
As Justin said, reflect on what you did. The audition then will have more meaning in allowing you to identify shortcomings.
Was it sight reading, was it scales, was it solo play, nerves, a bad read, all or none of the prior?
As you've alluded to, take stock in being with a group of good players, even if in truth, all as they redicule you, you might be better than some. We tend to do our best when among better players.
Would you rather be concertmaster of some baby band where you'll learn nothing?
Ricardo Morales, clearly one of the world's best players talks here about the importance to being a good person, in order to be a good musician.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hh0TZhhBoU
Feel sorry, not mad at the less than professional players around you: their rudeness may limit their musicianship. Only a player not confident in his or her own abilities has to put another player down. You experienced their weakness, not yours.
I'll get on people's case for lack of preparedness. I'll also get on people's case for ridiculing the player who is doing their best, even if that's not virtuosic.
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Indepedence
We draw a fine line in this world aound listening to the advice, both friend and foe give us, and marching to the beat of our own drummer. You need more of the latter.
Who cares where you sit--answer: you do..because you care what other people think. Care more about the music, and you.
There's a band I sit in where I choose to play 3rd so the students can sit in higher positions and learn. I don't care that spectators may think "boy that guy in the back must stink."
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The title of this piece is regaining self confidence. Cut yourself slack, this wasn't the reason to lose confidence. But nevertheless, to get it back, you will work your tail off at meaningful practice, (regular and this ensemble's play) ideally with a strong teacher.
Channel this into motivating yourself to be the best there. Remember, you're in this because you love music.
And don't ever do to others what these childish players did to you. Their message is of self praise, which is oxymoronic. Even if they play better, their worth as people is not better than yours.
If I found one my student's doing that I'd chew them out and tolerate it at most once.
I'd ask them if they were so great, to play this (some advanced thing)...then, I'd mildly Whiplash them... (that's a "musical" term ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDAsABdkWSc
Ever notice the humility of some of the best, Morales, McGill, Hudgins.
Look at this video of Hudgins. The guy's so sweet he could have taken over the Mr. Rogers Neighborhood show on PBS when much loved Fred Rogers
passed away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okTYQIOUb3Q
Post Edited (2017-06-26 06:34)
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-06-26 07:03
Sorry that happened, and know exactly what it feels like. Justin's right about studying with a great teacher. Another thing is, seek out experiences--music festivals, workshops, whatever--where you come into contact with sophisticated, big-city students who have had an easier or more direct road than you. We all don't know much at the beginning, but some folks get told a lot more, and a lot earlier, than others. Some might be jerks, but a lot of them are nice, willing to help others, and just grateful that they got the breaks they got. The remedy for not knowing a lot of stuff is to learn more, whatever you have to do to learn it.
A huge thing about developing confidence is being able to do what you need to do--come in soft exactly on the beat; play simple stuff containing some throat As or Bbs with a really great sound; play even 16ths or 32ths really fast--when you need to, whether the reed is great or not. That can take a certain fanaticism about your setup, and the discipline to practice some fundamental things that aren't as fun as playing through Nielsen or Francais, but if you can pop the solo from Night on Bald Mountain or turn heads with the Oberon solo time after time in the rehearsals and the concert, that does a lot for self confidence.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2017-06-26 07:30
Playing last chair in an ensemble is ok to do. I've done it and later in the same group played first chair. Just play the best you can and have some fun!
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Author: J-MB
Date: 2017-06-26 07:49
Thank you all so much for your kind words and encouragement and taking time to write responses to my matter. I think i'm going to embrace the part I was given and use this as a learning experience for me. Sure I may not have gotten an amazing chair or part, but I tried the best I could that day. Again, I thank all of you!
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-06-26 19:23
There are different types of people who sit first chair. The who wants it for the glory, not necessarily the strongest player, but they have senority...or something. Another is the strongest player, but could care less if they even play 1st (solo) part. Competition is good for all of you. You've been given good advise here, follow it and seek the prize. Hard work will beat raw talent at the end of the day. Even the most natural player has to practice. Get a teacher!
As an adult, I relish every time I don't have to sit first. I argue 2nd clarinet is the best part. You get a lot of the 'goodie' from the 1st part, perhaps some cool technical licks without the pressure of severe altissimo craziness.
I'd mention this with your endeavors. As you practice and improve, "Don't be THAT clarinetist." Lead by example, be sincere in helping other players further down the section - if the band director saw you doing this, so be it -not a bad thing.
With a professional tone, seek advise from the upperclassmen. It's a great way of developing rapport. You just might teach them some humility and professionalism.
{Just this past weekend, I was sitting between the 2nd and 3rd clarinets. I was probably having too much fun. I notice them trilling high C using the throat g# key - I'll admit it's a personal pet peeve of mine - I approach them all with using the RH side Bb key instead. I talked about how much better the tuning is and and we need all the help we can get because...you know...the flutes. We all chuckled at the flutes - great way to break the ice - and everyone was appreciative of the new fingering. They seem to love learning something new. It is possible to create an environment for open ideas and all benefit.}
Go break a reed!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-06-26 22:25
ClarinetRobt wrote:
> With a professional tone, seek advise from the upperclassmen.
> It's a great way of developing rapport. You just might teach
> them some humility and professionalism.
I always get an odd feeling when I see things like this. "Professionalism" may mean consistently accurate and musical playing, but it does not automatically equate to civility, kindness or respect for other players. Some of the most high-handed, uncivil, disrespectful behavior I've seen occur among players in bands and orchestras involved professional - i.e. full-time, well paid - musicians whose egos apparently only grew with their paychecks and the demand for their services. Sometimes they even put their students in the middle of their disputes (as when they both teach on the same school faculty). Some of the uncivil rivalries among principal players in major orchestras through the years have become legendary. Maybe "professional" is not the best term to use.
> {Just this past weekend, I was sitting between the 2nd and 3rd
> clarinets. I was probably having too much fun. I notice them
> trilling high C using the throat g# key - I'll admit it's a
> personal pet peeve of mine - I approach them all with using the
> RH side Bb key instead. I talked about how much better the
> tuning is
Please don't come to me if we ever play together in a band and tell me (or even suggest) what fingerings to use. As a matter of fact, using my side Bb key to trill on C6 is noticeably flatter than the G# key - too flat - on my instrument. Others' mileage may, almost certainly will, be different.
> and and we need all the help we can get because...you
> know...the flutes.
> We all chuckled at the flutes - great way
> to break the ice -
I wonder if a flute player overhearing this would have been amused.
Karl
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-06-26 23:01
Robt,
Another kind of person who wants to sit first chair is someone whose main motivation for playing is a need for artistic expression that will never get its chance to be heard by following and trying to blend with whoever _is_ playing first. The idea that music is, or at least can be, about more than ego and personal enjoyment is discounted in a lot of places, but it's been shared by some pretty great musicians.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-06-27 01:36
I would not negate ego as a motivational factor in many aspects of our lives, including playing clarinet and/or seeking first chair. I remain hopeful a little kindness (professionalism?) will go far in an HS situation - where these people see each on a daily basis - vs. spreading vile. Perhaps the OP can influence the atmosphere with her peers. Kill them with kindness (then bite your tongue!)
Whether professionals can maintain such decorum is for another discussion.
Fortunately suggesting a fingering on a trill caused no stress to the 80 years old vet seating beside me. The HS junior on the other side gave me a "cool, I remember that - let's use it!" I refrained from throwing down the gauntlet and making my choice the only viable fingering. I'd hope if a clarinet player had a different experience with an approach to something, they'd freely tell others of their experience and make further suggestions. We're there to share a collective music experience. If I felt uncomfortable with a player making a suggestion, a little self-deprecating comment about the trill fingering might ease tensions. "Of course, I've got the only R13 in the country the RH side trill is flat. Just my luck. The g# key works better for me." If someone told me that I'd comment, "I completely understand."
Tis better to be part of the solution and not part of the problem.
(no flute players were harmed in this post)
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2017-06-27 05:16
Taking the title thread in a slightly different direction than the OP, what about a soloist or other prominent player who for some reason lost their previous self-confidence? Say, from either a bad outing, or a period of inactivity, or some other change in circumstances. Before, they focused and played their best in the limelight, adrenaline helped them, they welcomed solo opportunities. Now they tighten up, get the shakes, start missing passages they've had cold for years. They're afraid enter the same limelight.
How do they go about getting it back?
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-06-27 06:41
Phillip:
They slow down the metronome and get it flawless, building up confidence at that speed...then they work the metronome up so slowy that marginal speed changes are hardly noticed, building confidence up one metronome click at a time.
Don't even look at the number of the metronome. Just press the up key when confidence is established at the current speed.
Eventually they learn, ideally, (easier said than done I know) to play faster than performance speed, with confidence, so performance becomes like jumping in the air after the metaphorical ankle weights have been removed.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-06-27 06:57
Philip Caron wrote:
> Taking the title thread in a slightly different direction than
> the OP, what about a soloist or other prominent player who for
> some reason lost their previous self-confidence?
This is something that only someone in the position you describe can really even attempt to answer. Most of us aren't prominent soloists, although there are a few who post who would or might qualify. I know how I've dealt with failure (time heals most wounds and battle scars carry reminders of lessons learned), but have no idea how really successful performers might do it.
Karl
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-06-27 07:53
That's true Karl. I'm not in the heads of the virtuosic anymore than they speak with one voice.
My suggestion is what I do, recommend, and know others recommend and do as well.
Some suggest, for example, taking a difficult phrase and mastering it in chunks more than on reducing speed.
Either route is anything but an exhaustive list.
Post Edited (2017-06-27 07:55)
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-06-27 17:56
Robt, of course you're right about the ability of ego to be a positive motivating factor, but there can also be something beyond that. Attended a workshop once by Wright, and translated at one Drucker gave in Taiwan. Did they have healthy egos? Well, they probably couldn't function at that level without one, but that wasn't what was in evidence in their workshops; it was all about devotion to and respect for the music, and how to play so that the music came out. Not all the big names have that, but a lot of them do.
Philip, at the risk of sounding crass and cynical, besides the two good answers to your question, I'm also reminded of a recent thread on beta blockers. Never tried them myself, but in retrospect, there have been times when I probably should have.
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Author: J-MB
Date: 2017-06-27 20:46
Thank you all again for such intrest in helping me! I can't care what people are going to think if I want to make it later on in life. I shouldn't let other maybe jealous/envious students dictate how i feel about my love of music. Thank you all so so much!
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Author: Cappuccino
Date: 2017-06-27 21:15
Confidence can only be gained through the mind: a change of perception is necessary. Look at all of the various aspects that make of life: these include friends, hobbies, other studies. If you contemplate this closely enough, you will realize how little a chair placement in an ensemble matters.
In time, this will all be forgotten, but you will be a better musician by then and not relegated to last chair.
Alexander May
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFZta2RG4iM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh8O5DC4Tqs
"Looking at art, you're looking at the result of a philosophy." - John Emmett
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2017-06-28 21:42
Something that might be worth saying is: we speak of 'confidence' as though WE KNOW WHAT IT IS.
Perhaps that's because we think of it as what characterised those times when we just DID something without doubting ourselves.
So when we see someone behaving 'confidently' we think that they similarly aren't doubting themselves.
But that may well not be true. It may be that they are managing their doubts in such a way that they don't interfere with their actions. We cannot know what their internal life is.
Perhaps what we need to do is, as someone once put it, not to ENTERTAIN our doubts, but to thank them for sharing, and move on.
Of course, that's easier said than done. But doing it is different from trying not to have doubts. That's impossible – when you're having them.
Tony
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