 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2017-03-31 13:04
Since I was a child, every teacher I ever had threatened me with hell and damnation if I pulled out my mouthpiece. Yet I find that pulling it out just a hair, after having pulled out the barrel, works wonders on my throat- tone A, G-sharp and B-flat. The drawback is that by pulling out more than one joint, you are creating gaps between the joints and in theory, this isn't good. Yet I don't find this has an adverse effect on tone and response. On an 188O Couesnon that I have, I have no choice but to pull out the mouthpiece. The barrel and the upper joint are all of a piece! -no barrel to be pulled out.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2017-03-31 16:42
It's not taboo among knowledgeable players. It's not necessarily ideal, but pulling out the mouthpiece a little can be better than only pulling out the barrel. Some people even have specific, smaller tuning rings to fit on the top side of the barrel for this purpose.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-03-31 16:46
ruben wrote:
> Since I was a child, every teacher I ever had threatened me
> with hell and damnation if I pulled out my mouthpiece.
I was never explicitly taught not to tune from the mouthpiece. The only reason I've always avoided it is that you lose the mouthpiece part of the adjustment every time you take it out, whether to swab the clarinet or to change between Bb, A and (maybe) C.
Karl
Post Edited (2017-03-31 18:45)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2017-03-31 17:35
I agree with Karl. It's also more likely to have movement when pulling out the MP instead of the barrel but a little really won't hurt anything if the tendon is secure and tight. Except as Karl stated.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2017-03-31 19:00
The only downside I can see is wobble. If you are in the unhappy situation of having to use a separate tuning barrel for each instrument, as most of us are, then the mouthpiece cork fit needs to be relatively slack in order to facilitate rapid changes. In that case, if the mouthpiece is pulled out at all then it's unlikely to stay where you put it under the pressure of energetic playing: it may just push back in, or wobble to one side or other unexpectedly.
This assumes that the aim is to do tuning tweaks in real time. If you just want to have the mouthpiece pulled out a fixed amount, then you can use a tuning ring on the mouthpiece to stabilise things. I did actually experiment with this, as I had a relatively short barrel and didn't want to pull that out so much (once again, for reasons of wobble). But I ended up deciding that the sound of the instrument was slightly less good with the extra space above the barrel than below. it might easily be the other way round for you, so worth a try if your aim is just to be permanently a bit lower in pitch.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2017-03-31 19:15
Why is sliding your r.h. pinky around the spatula keys taboo? German-system players do it all the time.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-31 19:23
German/Oehler system clarinets have rollers to facilitate this and they don't have near as many duplicate keys, so sliding is unavoidable.
We Boehm system players have duplicate keys so in theory shouldn't need to slide - but there are still instances where sliding is unavoidable.
My clarinet teacher advocated pulling the mouthpiece out rather than the barrel, but wasn't against pulling the barrel out if that's what his pupils preferred to do.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2017-03-31 21:08
David,
A friend has invented four right-hand spatula keys that allow one to slide upwards, downwards and diagonally with the greatest of ease (without rolers between the keys). I feel this is a major find, but he hasn't been able to get a manufacturer interested in his invention. A conservative lot, the big three are! (Buffet, Selmer and Yamaha)
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2017-03-31 22:33
Exactly, integrated barrel clarinets were pretty popular during the 19th/early 20th century, especially in France it seems, so your only option was/is to pull out at the mouthpiece. Some Boehm system clarinets have been made that at least some roller pink keys. Not sure why a LH Ab/Eb wouldn't be enough to solve most anything, though...
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2017-04-01 02:01
I didn't think sliding the RH pinky was taboo.
I've found many instances where it is preferable and have done so for more than 50 years.
Who decrees taboos ??
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Author: ned
Date: 2017-04-01 04:34
''...Who decrees taboos ??...''
It's the same person who creates urban myths.
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2017-04-01 05:25
Relax. Do what works.
Very often you'll find that many players pull out at the mouthpiece, barrel, middle joint, and bell. There are no rules for this. If you can manage playing in tune by pulling our wherever then do it! Now.... if you find yourself pulling everywhere and you are still sharp then perhaps you need a longer barrel, like a 67mm, which is very common for people required to play at 440. When I played in the Nashville Symphony, we played at 440... real 440, not just for the tuning note. Playing a regular set up was almost impossible. (this was before the Vandoren 13 series mouthpieces, so maybe those would've helped....)... Anyway, we all played 67 mm barrels on our horns while the principal played 68 on hers.
Bottom line is: do what works.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-04-01 06:23
Ruben,
Can you show photos of your friend's right hand spatula keys? Or would that violate future patent rights or trade secret security? Did he show his invention to the Josef oboe and clarinet company in Japan? They have incorporated some nifty smaller keys for the left hand pinky to manipulate that diverge from the conservative norm but are not equipped with rollers. Also they have a distinctively shaped left hand C#/G# key. Gao has also given a unique shape to the register key on his new model Royal clarinet. And Rene Hagmann has been known to fit right hand roller keys to Buffets.
Post Edited (2017-04-01 21:42)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2017-04-01 09:49
Dear Seabreeze,
Unfortunately, I can't show pictures, as his patent is still pending and he's rather paranoid about protecting his invention. What I can say is that you can slide laterally, downwards, upwards, with your right prinkie; with the greatest of ease. The only drawback I have found is that because there's less leeway on the G sharp key, it makes it less easy to trill from G to G sharp; from D to E flat.
Josef sells very few clarinets; they're mostly into oboes. Their prices are also exhorbitant.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2017-04-01 09:50
I have tuning rings that fit the mouthpiece tenon (thanks to Mike Lomax) and in the summer when it's annoying warm here (the land of no air conditioning) rather than use a 67mm barrel, I use my (familiar) 66mm with a 1mm tuning ring at the mouthpiece tenon. [likewise for A clarinet, I use my familiar/favourite barrel with an extra 1mm]
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-04-01 12:35
My first teacher showed me how to slide my fingers around on the spatula keys and I've done so for the last 65 years. I don't see the problem.
Tony F.
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Author: jonnyswife
Date: 2017-04-01 13:43
Obviously pulling the barrel is best and moving the mouthpiece isn't ideal, but I know many excellent players who will make occasional small adjustments to their mouthpiece position.
It can work well assuming - as has already been stated - the fit is good.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-04-02 06:13
Muncy Winds sells tuning rings that fit the center joint AND the MP/barrel joint, if you didn't know ...
Tom
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Author: echi85
Date: 2017-04-02 06:29
I don't really think it is. Clark Fobes makes rings specifically for this purpose:
https://www.clarkwfobes.com/collections/tuning-rings/products/clarinet-mouthpiece-tuning-ring-set-2-0-75mm?variant=31466377552
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Author: clarii2
Date: 2017-04-03 01:09
my argument is that pulling out the barrel joint or mouthpiece effects the left hand notes three times more than the right hand. the clarinet does not tune proportionate to itself. thats why tuning to concert A (third line cl. B) is insane. its a 12th above the flattest note on the clarinet! and how many times have we heard the GABC so sharp! after tuning to concert A. ive seen clarinetist play both brahms sonatas tuning to third line B and all the Bs are B-FLAT!
i'd tune to third line b-flat. tune to the bad notes(tune to any note of the tessaterra of the composition-even the key) and the good notes will take care of themselves. wheres my soap box!! as for pulling out the middle and even the bell. crazy. hey check it with the tuner please.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2017-04-03 01:47
Surely any competent musician tunes all his octaves and other intervals not just A=440 which is just the starting point.
From that point on he/she uses their ears.
Amazing things ears!
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