 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kontra
Date: 2011-03-11 05:53
I'm playing my new Penzel Mueller Artist clarinet in jazz band. I'm playing the solo in Glenn Miller's Moonlight Serenade. I need to upgrade my mouthpiece... I play on a Premier by Hite. I tried 3 different mouthpieces tonight... The B45, the 5RV, and the M13 Lyre. The B45 worked best for me but still not what I'm looking for. But to the main point of my post:
I seem to have an overall really bright tone. Like really bright. In marching band during the Star Spangled Banner, my sound cut through the band and later that night my director compared it to an Eefer's sound. Obviously this is not going to work for Moonlight Serenade and overall it's something I've been trying to fix for a long time. Can I have some tips from you guys on what I should do to fix this? Thanks!
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2011-03-11 10:37
Reed choice affects sound a lot.
But there's nothing wrong with a bright sound. Have you had any feedback on your Moonlight? Might sound great in the auditorium. It's good to be able to cut through the band.
Why do you think you sound 'bright'? Are you having to blow really hard?
You could try a B40, or M30. Thick tip rail = slightly 'covered' sound.
Post Edited (2011-03-11 10:39)
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Author: Kontra
Date: 2011-03-11 14:29
Well, I used to blow really hard into the mouthpiece to get a louder sound, and now it's just natural to me. I play really loud and really bright. When I play bass clarinet, my director calls me "the only loud bass clarinet player, ever." I like being heard, but I love a dark clarinet sound.
I haven't got any feedback on the solo because I just got the piece, and will be practicing it over my spring break a lot.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-03-11 15:31
Some players just naturally get a brighter sound than others no matter what they play on but finding the right mouthpiece for you will certainly help, the problem is, what MP? Bassie's recommendation is good but there are so many on the market. You should start with those to see if they help but if not, try as many as you can get on a trial basis. Now, the other thing to realize is that you are part of the problem as well. No MP will entirely solve your problem, you have to help. You need to NOT force, sounds like you use much too much pressure so you can be heard. You don't want to always be heard you know, some times you need to blend. I would also suggest you try some other brand of reeds and perhaps even a stronger reed so you have a little more resistance but that can make the problem even worse if it's too hard and you force more. I found that most students with that problem used too soft reeds. Mostly you need to back off a bit, find the best mouthpiece and reed combination for you and play with common sense, meaning, don't force. You can also help "mellow" your tone by using more of an oh vowel when playing instead of an e vowel which tends to make the air passage smaller and resulting in forcing the air more. Also relaxing your embouchure can help. Depends on how you play of course. Just a few suggestions. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2011-03-11 15:39
You should try a few Gigliotti mouthpieces. They have covered and dark tone compared to other mass produced mps like Vandoren and Selmer. I would suggest a P34. Gigliotti himself had very bright sound and I think he developed these mouthpieces to make his tone darker.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-03-11 22:30
Sonichbang, it didn't work for him did it?. I've heard some players get a fairly dark sound using his MPs but I've heard even more get a bright sound. ESP
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-03-12 15:41
Ed Palanker wrote:
> Sonichbang, it didn't work for him did it?.
Without wanting necessarily to dispute Ed's assessment of Gigliotti's sound, I think the comment points to the general uselessness of many of the terms we use to describe tone quality, especially "dark" and "bright." However Ed or anyone else describes the sound Gigliotti characteristically produced, both on his own mouthpieces and on the Chedevilles he played through the early 1970s, Gigliotti himself always considered his tone to be "dark." I can easily accept both descriptions, because I think I understand what Gigliotti meant by "dark" and I also think I understand what players today mean by the same pair of terms, but it's a little like discussing tone in two different languages.
My point is that the terms mean different things to different people. Your tone may or may not be as screamingly "bright" as you think it is, or as your band director says it is, but the point is, more importantly, is it musical or unpleasant and does it serve the purposes you need it to serve.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-03-12 20:26
KDK, it is true that the terms we use for describing tone quality can sometimes be confusing because, as you said, some have a different idea of what bright and dark may mean. All I can say about Gigliotti's sound was that in my experiences just about everyone I've ever met, except for one person, thought he got a bright sound. I'm not saying that was bad, that's up to the individuals taste, I'm just saying just about everyone I've ever met thought that including many of his students that I've met in my day. To me, he got a bright sound, what can I say. I used to defend him as a student saying that just because you don't like his sound doesn't mean he's not a good player, he was indeed a very good clarinetist, I even studied with him for a while when I came to Baltimore. Tone quality doesn't make a good or bad player, it's what one does with that tone that does that. ESP
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Author: Kontra
Date: 2011-03-12 21:05
Thanks for the info guys. I'll definitely be trying out the Brilhardt and also a Fobes Debut and tell you what I think. I will admit though, the new clarinet I bought - a Penzel Mueller - has given me a sound that I like. However, my teacher does not like the horn. He says it is too resistant, and that I got a lemon. I don't intend on getting rid of it, unless the more I play it I find intonation issues or something. I will admit that some notes are resistant but I think I can work around it, although my teacher said I probably won't be able to get a good jazz sound. Ill get a tech to look at it and see - until then, I'll be practicing.
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Author: Kontra
Date: 2011-03-12 21:12
Also on the Brilharts, what is the difference between the 3, 3*, 5, 5*?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-03-12 21:37
Kontra -
Go to the WWBW link and click on "Please select an option" just below the price.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-03-12 21:49
My point isn't so much about Gigliotti's sound (whenever he said I sounded more focused as a student, I thought my sound was bright and edgy).
My point has more to do with Kontra's search for something that will make him sound less "bright." Kontra, it isn't clear to me whether you think your sound is too bright because your band director said so or because you really don't like what's coming out of your clarinet. It isn't clear to me, either, whether your sound might be just too loud and too prominent and "sticks out," which could be more a technical problem that a mouthpiece won't solve. Nearly anyone will sound much "brighter" at fortissimo than at, say, mezzo-forte or softer. It may be more a need for you to learn to control your air differently than to find equipment that "darkens" your sound.
I'm not sure what you mean when you ay that your sound "is not going to work for Moonlight Serenade." Sound concepts as they apply to jazz and big band playing are often very different from the ones expected in "classical" settings and certainly very different from those often applied in marching bands. If you are going to be playing Glenn Miller arrangements or pieces written in that style, the clarinet sound lies on top of the reed section but is not forced or, really, loud. Solos are warm, but not loud or really aggressive (they used mics even back then). Again, this may be more a question of blowing style - technique - than equipment.
I think Ed P's comment that "...the other thing to realize is that you are part of the problem as well. No MP will entirely solve your problem, you have to help. You need to NOT force, sounds like you use much too much pressure so you can be heard. You don't want to always be heard you know, some times you need to blend," may be right on the money (none of us having actually heard you play).
Good luck in jazz band.
Karl
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Author: Kontra
Date: 2011-03-12 22:17
My tone is usually commented on as "Very bright, but strong. You're very loud." I don't necessarily hate the brightness, but control and blend is something I need to work on. I think my technique has been neglected in the years I've been playing bass, and I need to seriously get back on that. They are of course two very different instruments. While at the same time, a marching band beaten Premier by Hite MPC isn't my best option, and I can afford an upgrade.
I did once have a Legere reed for my Bb. It played great for the first few weeks. It eliminated a lot of problems I was having. Then... my sound started getting extremely screechy and I hated it. I went back to cane, and while I now have the old headaches of cane, I'm not screechy anymore.
I do like the sound on my new horn a lot better than my old one, but it is still a brighter sound. I mean, now that I read these replies, I suppose bright isnt as bad as I thought. I DO like the sound on my horn, one of my directors does too, the other does not. I still feel there is something missing though.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-03-13 09:27
Kontra, regarding the Brilhart mouthpieces: The facings with the * indicate a short facing length, and the ones without have a long facing.
I have a Brilhart Ebolin 1 and a Tonalin 4. In my experience, these pieces deliver a reedy sound with a touch of stridency compared to middle-of-the-road mouthpieces. They can also be shockingly loud when played with a well-matched reed and good air support. In "clarinet-unfriendly" acoustical environments I use my Brilharts and they are excellent for getting the sound "out there".
Since you're looking for something darker-sounding than the Hite Premiere, I don't think the Brilharts will get you where you want to go. Still, they are so affordable and so different from other inexpensive mouthpieces, you ought to try one anyway.
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