 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-12-12 21:18
Pros: keeps your instrument hydrated
keeps your reeds in a good environment
Cons: Accelerates oxidation of the keys
oxidizes springs
What other pros and cons are there? I always thought that a humidifier was always a pro to have in a case, but when i started seeing some milkyness on the nickel keys, I assumed that the humidifier (negative charge in water) caused this.
any other comments of the cons of having a humidifer?
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: ChrisArcand
Date: 2007-12-12 22:23
My problem with your "con" is that wouldn't oxidation happen the same way anyway? That is to say, if your case is kept at 45% in the summer, and then dry in the winter, but you then humidified your case in the winter, then your clarinets would ALWAYS be 45% year round, so "acceleration" isn't quite the right word. It's not like you keep them more moist during the winter months, its just it's too dry in the first place.
However, I see your point in that perhaps oxidation happens "quicker", as you don't have those dry months where it isn't as humid...Is that what you are referring to?
CA
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-12-12 22:36
(Disclaimer - I sell humidifiers, hygrometers, and desiccants)
If you keep your case at 40% - 50% RH there should be no increased oxidation of the nickel - what is this negative charge idea ? You will need a hygrometer so as to know what the actual humidity level is so that you do not over or under humidify. A common problem is that people throw in a humidifier in their case and add too much water vapor - make it too humid.
I see no cons of keeping a good humidity level in your case.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-12-12 23:40
heh that's my problem. i don't have a hygrometer to measure the moisture level. though i set the humidifier on close mode, water still comes out. but i guess my argument is that if there isn't a humidifer in the case, wouldn't the keys maintain their shine due to the lack of negative ions in the water? i mean i wipe my keys off with a cloth which puts some postive charges on the plating, buti dont know. it's just that i'm noticiing a faster reaction then when i had my clarinet without one.
or maybe i forgot what it looked like. i seriously hope i'm not getting old.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-12-13 00:00
Dampits to me are really bad for the Clarinet. They release too much water too quickly and then they are dry until refilled the next day.
Was that what you use?
Guessing not as you mentioned that you kept the humidifier on close mode.
http://www.humistat.com is what I use and highly recommend for increasing the Clarinet humidity.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2010-09-30 17:32)
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-12-13 00:31
I use distilled water in my humidifier to avoid the chlorine gas released when the water evaporates from tap water but that's just me - I'm not sure that I follow the negative ion theory perhaps you could explain?
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-12-13 01:36
i use a humistat humidifer which is a great product as it has a controlled release with a twist. my tap water has a lot of calcium deposits.
my idea of the negative ion theory is an assumption not based on facts but on a hunch. I wipe my keys with a microfiber cloth every once in a while. It kind of reminds me of rubbing a balloon next to your hair and releasing a bunch of electricity. so if you wipe the plating, you expose reopen exposed pores in the metal which in turn become exposed to the water in the humidifer thereby more oxidation? if that makes any sense. the charge accelerates the oxidation process?
total assumption here.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-12-13 01:49
Static charges can not build up in an evironment where the relative humidity is above around 40% because the water vapor in the air is a conductor and dissipates the charges. They too will dissipate within a few minutes even with lower RH. I am not sure that the pore opening theory goes along with any information that I know of - interesting though!
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-12-13 02:34
My cracked clarinet repairer recommends 50-60% relative humidity in the case. He admits that those are high numbers --compared to the recommendations of others. BUT. Check the equilibrium moisture content of grenadilla wood at 98.6-deg, 100% humidity!
The inside of the clarinet won't get that wet from playing, but it gives you an idea of what the poor bit of beautiful machined wood is up against --so I agree with him that you'd like to keep the whole clarinet pretty damp if its being played.
I got the Humistat folks humidistat (the instrument) to check on the hydration of my case. Very, very difficult to get the case up to 50-60% humidity. My house is conditioned to 68-degF, and that lowers the room humidity to about 30% --a long way to 60%. Two humistats (the little vial of water with the seeping plug and adjustable cap) won't do it. I could only get there by wiping the entire lining of the case with a damp sponge.
My cracked clarinet repairer suggests putting two 2x3x1-inch sponges saturated with water in the case --first fitting them into little 'baggies' --the small ones that people pack things like nuts and bolts --so that the sponges won't wet the case. This does it --but barely.
Compared to the pain of a crack in a wonderful, responsive and beautiful instrument, I'll opt for the humidity even if I have to polish the keywork ( and I haven't seen any sign of accelerated corrosion).
Your mileage will vary.
Bob Phillips
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-12-13 10:26
I too don't "buy" the static electricity theory in regards to the keys. After you wipe them see if they will attract a tiny piece of tissue. Now....if you rub a hard rubber clarinet with a silk cloth you just might produce a static charge. Perhaps your water contains something that's attacking the keys....or you're too close to the ocean.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2010-03-31 02:42
Regarding the oxidization of silver keys, 3M makes silver protector strips (about 2 by 4 inches) that are designed to retard the oxidation of silver. I put several in my case that I keep at around 50% humidity and I have noticed that the silver keys on my 4-year old Bb clarinet have not begun to oxidize whereas before using the 3M strips my A clarinet's silver keys began to oxidize in no time.
You can get 3M strips for relatively cheap on eBay from silver dealers.
----------------------------------------------------
Simon Aldrich
Clarinet Faculty - McGill University
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre Metropolitain de Montreal
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre de l'Opera de Montreal
Artistic Director - Jeffery Summer Concerts
Clarinet - Nouvel Ensemble Moderne
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-03-31 04:35
I am always concerned about clarinets cracking. I'm with you as far as the keys looking great, in perfect condition.
I don't see how you can gain 100 percent humidity, unless you soak the horn in direct water, therefore something around 45% seems about right. I wrote about this one time in the past. You can put sponges into 3 to 5 areas of your case, depending if you have a double case or a single case. I drill out several tiny holes into those plastic medicine bottles and insert the sponges. I also dip the sponges into distilled water, which is only about $1.50 a gallon. I perfer distilled water as it is pure water. If you boil water, the actual steam, water vapor, is what is referred to as distilled. So, your chances of getting mold in your clarinet cases are substantially decreased.
Actual silver, or silver plating, will tarnish. One of my horns is from 1975, or so, an R13. The key's look pretty bad, but thats OK by me. After about 10 feet away, people probably can't tell if the keys are silver, nickel, or chrome plated. I have to wonder if people actually care.
Here's something to think about. The bodies of the great vintage Selmer Mark 6 saxophones are all pretty much tarnished. The sax players that own these horns usually do not have them stripped down and re-lacquered, because of the fear of the sound quality changing. It may be very difficult to find a repairman that will consider doing this, because of the horn not playing the same.
I'm sure you understand that having the keys on your horn plated, won't effect the sound. So if this really bothers you a great deal, consider having the keys plated in chrome. Chrome will last a very long time before the plating will start to chip off. The chrome can crack by adjusting, bending, the keys.
I'd like to play a horn with carbon fiber keys. I would thing the keys would be very light weight, perhaps letting the clarinet vibrate with less resistance. An entire black clarinet may look kind of cool.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-03-31 05:45
Bob B,
I fondled a LeBlanc Bliss clarinet with black nickel keys a few weeks ago, and it (to me) is really gorgeous.
In the '80s (golden era of steel bicycles), plating with black chrome on the dropouts and lugs formed the basis of a gorgeous finish --regardless (almost) of the paint color.
Bob Phillips
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Author: BobD
Date: 2010-04-01 07:38
Got fooled again with a resurrected post, and wondered if it had something to do with April 1. Wouldn't put it past Blummy to do that. Nevertheless: A black finish on nickel plating might be helpful for those who have an allergy to Ni.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-04-03 21:41
I always use dampits in my clarinet cases and have never had any problem at all. Of course I only do that in the winter months when the air is dry. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: William
Date: 2010-04-04 16:58
I have never used humidification of any kind in any of my many instrument cases--clarinet & sax--and have NEVER experianced wood cracking, keys (all clarinets silver or gold plated) tarnishing or problems from reeds drying out normally in their cases. No mold or mildew smell, either. Over 55 yrs playing experiance, I see no reason to start using humidification nor anti-tarnishing strips anytime soon.
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