 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2010-02-14 14:09
I received the following question from a conductor friend of mine. I really don't know of any good solution so post it here for your ideas and comments.
"I'm doing Shostakovich 7 in about 10 days, and the bass clarinet solo starts on a low written C# in bass clarinet. Our bass clarinet player's instrument doesn't go down that low ("If you want that note, it's another 6 grand for the instrument" was the quote!). I've run into this sort of thing more often on bassoon- they just stick a piece of paper towel tubing, a rolled up piece of music or a bit of someone's english horn in the top of the bassoon if they need a low A. The chap (he sounds fine otherwise) says he can get the low b this way, but that there's no fingering for the concert d (low written e in bass clef) after that. "I'd have to stick in the extension and remove it for every note change, so I couldn't finger the notes" seems to be the issue. I'm wondering if there is, short of "another six grand" a magic fingering that would make the 2nd possible with some kind of extension? I'm about to make the first clarinet player work the extension for him! Any thoughts?"
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-02-14 14:29
Have the orchestra rent an extended bass?
Karl
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-02-14 15:34
Unfortunately there's no quick and easy solution. This is why I've spent many hours building low-C extensions for my bass clarinets. You rarely need the extended-range notes, but when you do, you really need them!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-02-14 17:03
>> You rarely need the extended-range notes, but when you do, you really need them! <<
Who is "you"? 
I don't remember the last time I didn't use those notes
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-02-14 17:30
Those "rarely need extended-range notes" are used more often then you realize. Even in some new "pops" arrangements some of those low notes are now being used. Once a composer or arranger realizes that just about every bass clarinet player has an extended bass clarinet in our orchestras today, as well as most major conservatories, they write for it more and more.
Years ago players had an extensions built for their instruments that they could put on as needed. I don't know who would build one today. I'm also not sure the difference between a low Eb and low C bass would cost but it's probably not 6k difference.
I would suggest giving the solo to the bassoon because you have to have the extended notes to play that beautiful lengthly solo, one of the longest in the symphonic repertoire.
When I joined the BSO in 1963 I did not have a low C bass and didn't need it my first two years. When I decided to purchase my low C bass in my 3rd year in the BSO we did at least three major works that I needed that range that year. That was just good timing I guess. Now, if you audition for a major orchestra, you need to have a low C bass, period. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2010-02-14 21:52
Why the heck does someone talk about Schostakovich 7 like if it were some amateur orchestra piece. Get an appropriate instrument or play an easier piece. It is really as simple as that! Ed, I'm surprised about your advice on the bassoon.
Alphie
Post Edited (2010-02-14 21:58)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-02-15 01:26
I suggested the bassoon because he can't play it on a low Eb bass so what's the alternative? You can't play the symphony and just leave it out. Obviously it should be done on a low C bass as written. I know that's sacrilegious but it's just being practical. Of course no professional orchestra would stand for that. ESP
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-02-15 02:30
I apologize for going slightly off-tangent, but this may be relevant. Ed, I'd like to direct to you a question I posed here a couple of years back, before you started posting to the BB: I don't believe anyone was building low-C bass clarinets back during the 20s, 30s and 40s when composers (mostly Russian) starting writing parts using the extended range. In fact, I've never seen a commercial low-C bass clarinet built before the 1960s. So, did such instruments in fact exist back then? Or if not, how did orchestral players handle the parts if they didn't have the notes on their horns?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-02-15 04:00
David, I believe you're right. I think the Selmer model 33 I use, bought in the mid 60s, was their first model. I know Leblanc already made one and I guess Buffet did too. There may have already been some custom models being built in Europe, I'm not sure It is my guess that someone in Russia either built a bass clarinet with a low C or built an extension going down to the low C. Although I've never actually seen an extension myself I understand that's what some players had built. I've seen advertisements for extensions back in the 60 and 70s. Although I don't know it as a fact, I assume if a player did not have an extension and they had to play a piece that needed those low notes they would have no choice but to either alter the octave or give the part to the bassoon. I've seen some printed music with an asterisk saying if these notes are not possible allow the bassoon to play it. In at least one case I can think of it says contra bassoon, I believe that's at the end of the Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet for a low D. What else could one possibly do otherwise? It's a little like when a composer writes a low Eb for the clarinet, you just have to alter it the best you can if you can't transpose it on the A clarinet, or it's written for the A clarinet. it's not common but it does happen. ESP
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2010-02-15 04:04)
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2010-02-24 17:38
Maybe I'm being very stupid here (in that case my appologies), but I see no problem with putting an improvised extension on the instrument and playing (Bb written notes) a low C# and E. The C# will come out when you hit the Eb and the E when you hit the E...?
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Author: graham
Date: 2010-02-24 18:12
Get a player with the appropriate instrument. The usual guy sits out this concert.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2010-02-24 18:43
This piece was first recorded in the late 1940's by the Buffalo Philharmonic, William Steinberg conducting. I remember buying that Musicraft album of 78RPM shellac records when I was still in high school. If memory serves me correctly, it seemed like the low bass clarinet solo was being played on a contrabass clarinet in that recording. Certainly might be an option for the poster here--a lot more honest than jury rigging a low Eb instrument with cardboard tubes (I don't see how that could work, anyway!) And probably a lot less awkward, fingering-wise, than on a bass clarinet--even a low C one.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-02-24 18:54
Tom Ridenour makes a low C bass for under $3,000. I don't know how good it is, but it's much less than the price of a new Buffet, Leblanc, or Selmer, obviously.
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/lowcbasspage.html
Perhaps since he's a one-man shop (and, hence, more at liberty to make customized deals with customers), you might be able to convince him to rent you one on a short-term basis.
Another option would be to borrow or rent an Eb contra-alto clarinet and transpose the solo for that instrument. A lot of school bands have them, so you might have an easier time tracking down one of those than you would a low-C bass. Using a contra-alto in this solo would be a more than acceptable solution to the problem, I think--certainly better than a bassoon. I'm fairly familiar with this piece and the solo--as a listener, mind you, not as a player (it's a personal favorite of mine)--but I think it would sound just fine on a contra-alto.
In fact, since Wikipedia says that contra-altos have been around since the 19th century (and from the above discussion, low C basses haven't been around that long), it wouldn't surprise me if many of the orchestras that played this piece at the height of its popularity in the 1940s used contra-altos instead of basses for this solo, especially in the West.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-02-24 18:55
Well, Larry, it looks like you and I were typing the same thought at the same time.
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2010-02-25 14:23
A half-note extension to written D worked OK for my old Normandy bass, but I added a slight flare at the by making it from concentric pieces of grey electrical tubing, which also made it somewhat tunable. However, I'm doubtful that going another half-step would sound acceptable.
Except for a questionable LH pinky low D linkage, the Ridenour 925 low C seems like a good buy in terms of intonation and tone quality. Comparing it to a Buffet and a Selmer I tried at a recent clarinet day, the very subtle increase in quality in the Buffet does not (at this point in my playing) warrant the 3X increase in cost, and while the Selmer seemed to have a slightly better very bottom end, the Ridenour seemed better in the altissimo.
While I struggled in deciding to buy the Low C, in the 9 months that I've had it I'm very glad I did. In addition to finding the extra notes in the band and orchestral pieces, it has been useful when I play from Cello or Bassoon parts, and even when I fill in a Contrabass clarinet part. But YMMV.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-02-25 14:45
Does anyone know if the Ridenour bass clarinet plays significantly different from the similar looking bass clarinets offered by Chinese makers at instrument exhibitions like Frankfurt Musikmesse?
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2010-02-25 17:00
A local clarinet teacher asked me to "audition" a new low-C Ridenour bass clarinet a few months ago. I found it to be severely deficient, especially with regard to intonation. I haven't tried any of the Chinese instruments so I can't make any comparative judgments.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-02-25 21:56
The Ridenour bass clarinet IS a Chinese instrument, made to Tom's specifications and tweaked by him (so he wrote me a few years ago when I bought one of the first production models). As I reported then, I liked the instrument initially but sold it after only a month, having been somewhat unhappy with its intonation and very unhappy with its ergonomics and tone quality. Larry, I believe you attended the one and only concert (CWS) at which I played that instrument! I'm pretty sure I showed it to you there.
From what I've seen all (or nearly all) Chinese-made bass clarinets, whether branded "Ridenour", or "Kessler", or whatever, are essentially the same instrument. I wouldn't be surprised if they all came out of the same factory. They are basically a hard-rubber copy of the Yamaha low-C bass (not one of my favorites).
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Author: Ed Lowry
Date: 2010-02-26 20:15
Is the bass clarinet solo for the Shostakovich 7th available for home practice (aside from the orchestra part)?
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