 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Frightful
Date: 2009-12-04 01:35
I come wondering whether a jazz mouthpiece (i.e. Vandoren 5JB or Pomarcio's jazz model) really makes that much of a difference in tone from a regular, concert mouthpiece (Vandoren 5RV?). I am in desperate need of a new mouthpiece and I really love playing serious jazz (more than classical, but not by much), but of course, in my high school, clarinets cannot participate in the official jazz band, making my concert performances much more prominent.
I have a rather tight budget, so I would like to know exactly how much of a noticeable tone difference there will be if I used a jazz mouthpiece in concert. Even if so, would it be better to play a jazz mouthpiece regardless of the ensemble, or invest my money in a classic one to be used for jazz and concert?
Edit: Oh, and just as a sidenote: has anyone tried the new black crystal Pomarico mouthpieces?
Post Edited (2009-12-04 01:43)
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2009-12-04 02:23
A simple answer is one does not have to use a "jazz" mouthpiece in order to play jazz on clarinet. The important thing is to have a really beautiful sound....dark, warm, resonant, and ringing. Then, you can play any type of music with that sound and adapt your playing style to the music.
Over the years, I've tried a wide range of clarinet mouthpieces. It's been my experience that I was not able to get the quality of sound I wanted with so-called jazz mouthpieces. Simply put, they did not have the level of resonance and ring that I want.
The mouthpiece that I've found to be a perfect match for my tonal conception is a Walter Grabner K14 (Kaspar style). A funny thing about this is Walter describes it as a jazz mouthpiece. However, its tip opening is 1.09 mm which is on the small side -- with most jazz clarinet mouthpieces being larger than 1.30 mm. Walter's K14 is only about .02 mm larger than the K13 model. So, we're not talking about a monster open tip mouthpiece. I've found the K14 to be very impressive. It has a naturally dark, fat, and resonant sound as well as an exceptional degree of projection. I have no problem being heard in a large jazz ensemble with this mouthpiece. It also works equally well for me in classical ensembles.
Good luck!
Roger
Post Edited (2009-12-04 02:24)
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Author: LonDear
Date: 2009-12-04 02:31
There can be a difference in the tone, but the biggest difference is the control and pitch. If you have a good, fairly open classical mouthpiece, you will be able to play jazz just fine, and even dixie and klezmer. You will have to work a bit more to get tone varieties with your jaw, throat and tongue position than you would with a "jazz" mouthpiece. With the big mouthpieces like a 5JB, crystal RIA or Pomarico, you have to vizualize it like you're speaking into a megaphone; everything is exaggerated. Every change you make with your throat and tongue is effectively amplified compared to a more traditional mouthpiece, giving you more control over the tonal variety with less effort. Since most clarinetists that I've worked with have a pretty stable system inside their mouth, the "jazz" mouthpiece should theoretically work for them for classical work. BUT, with the openness of the chamber also comes a bigger tip opening. Most players prefer a softer reed as the tip becomes more open, but those who cling to the harder reeds will also find that it becomes more difficult to keep the pitch steady for classical work.
You have to consider the variables in any ensemble you play in. For me, if I'm in a jazz combo, I would rather have the maximum flexibility for tone and pitch bending. If I'm playing classical or shows, I would rather keep my mouth still and concentrate on the printed music. In any venue, the most important part is listening.
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Author: LonDear
Date: 2009-12-04 02:45
Roger beat me to the reply, so my previous answer is a bit out of date. Like Roger, my main mouthpiece is a Grabner K14. I also use it everywhere including classical, jazz and big band gigs, with few exceptions.
The reason that I go with the really big mouthpieces sometimes (like last night's Christmas party) is to be able to get more variety in my tone without having to work hard.
I would still encourage Frightful to try some bigger pieces if they are easily available.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2009-12-04 02:55
A Portnoy might fill the bill. #2, #3 Cheaper than a Grabner(very good)
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: brycon
Date: 2009-12-04 05:36
I use my Kaspar for whatever type of playing I'm doing. Some jazz saxophonists play classical pieces too; if memory serves me, Kenny Garrett plays an old Selmer soloist for instance. To borrow an oft repeated phrase here: it isn't so much what your setup is but how you play it. Save the money and invest in some albums!
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-12-04 07:39
brycon's right on the money. You only need one mouthpiece, and you don't need a "jazz mouthpiece" to play jazz. I used to play jazz and jazz-like music on a Gigliotti--about as "legit" a mouthpiece as they come. Glisses and changing tone colors are all a function of what you do with your mouth.
That being said, if, as you say, you need a new mouthpiece anyway (because your old one broke or what have you), you might want to try out what I play on. I have an Eddie Daniels (ED1) mouthpiece. Eddie Daniels is, of course, a jazz musician who also plays classical, and this is a classical-style mouthpiece (relatively close facing). I play mostly classical, and I can get a great classical sort of sound on it, but every once in a while I'll play something that requires a gliss or some other kind of jazzy effect. For whatever reason this mouthpiece makes it surprisingly easy to bend pitches and do glisses--much easier than what I used to play on. It's a little more than what you'd probably pay for a Vandoren or Gigliotti, but it's not as expensive as what you'd pay for from a custom mouthpiece craftsman--a nice compromise. Given the different kinds of music you play, you might want to give it a try.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2009-12-04 12:23
When I was first getting to know Walter Grabner I quickly discovered that we are on the same page regarding differences between volume and projection. I described to him it's been my experience how some of my saxophone buddies use high baffle, smaller chamber mouthpieces and if one goes to the back of the hall to listen to their sound you find that their sound drops and does not project to the back of the hall. Whereas, I'm a fan of large chamber, small baffle mouthpieces (made with exceptionally high quality hard rubber) and whenever I've asked a friend to check on my sound and balance in an ensemble they report that my sound projects to the back of the hall and can be heard better in the audience than the guys using various kinds of jazz mouthpieces.
I've had exactly the same experience with projection using a Grabner K14 on clarinet and his LB mouthpiece on bass clarinet.
With this in mind, I've come to use what I think of as a middle-of-the-road tip opening with my saxophone & clarinet mouthpieces andl, especially, use mouthpieces that have an exceptional amount of projection. Tonal ring is a key element in projection. Thus, a Kaspar style clarinet mouthpiece can be fantastic for jazz...also, in having a beautiful dark fat sound. In this way, I discovered that I do not need big tip opening mouthpieces in order to play in a large ensemble -- jazz or classical.
With respect to bending notes, etc.... Middle of the road reed strength. I normally use a #3 strength on all of my saxophone and clarinet set ups. Importantly, I use thick cut reeds. I've found that having more "wood" in the heart helps in having a stronger tonal core.
Finally, taking in the right amount of mouthpiece -- with the lower lip on the falcum point where the reed separates from the facing curve of the mouthpiece -- is extremely important in having a big and resonant sound.
Doing these things, I'm able to use the same set up for either classical or jazz playing.
Roger
Post Edited (2009-12-04 13:23)
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-12-04 12:35
hmmm I'm using V-12 # 3.5+ on K14 for both classical and jazz but know I use SW1 for classical and K14 for jazz as I found it to be too free blowing in the upper register for classical music.
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Author: Frightful
Date: 2009-12-04 14:28
The K14 seems very tempting, but I don't know if I can afford that much. I have been playing on a beginner plastic Yamaha for about three and a half years now and I want to make upgrading that a priority. But, for now, I won't take my budget into consideration.
I know WWBW lets people "rent and test" out mouthpieces, so I'm thinking something like that would be a good idea to try out the various classic and jazz style mouthpieces. Is this a good idea?
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2009-12-04 16:07
Frightful,
Have you checked with any local music shops to see if you can bring your clarinet into the store and try various mouthpieces? Provided the shop has a good selection, I think that would be easier than going the WWBW route. Nevertheless, you are on the right track in trying a selection of mouthpieces and finding a particular one that really does it for you. I suspect that all of us have used various mouthpieces over the years before finding the mouthpiece we're now using.
Roger
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-12-04 16:15
>> The important thing is to have a really beautiful sound....dark, warm, resonant, and ringing. <<
What if you want a really beautiful, bright, cold sound...?
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Author: Frightful
Date: 2009-12-04 17:51
My local music store is pretty lousy, but a few miles out to downtown is a larger, better, and relatively cheaper place, so I guess I could go and try out that place, see what they have.
Edit: After some research I've decided that a more closed mouthpiece is more suitable for me. Thanks for the info; I'm very inclined towards a Grabner K14 now.
Post Edited (2009-12-04 22:06)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2009-12-05 16:29
Good choice Frightful. Great comment Clarnibass. I think the Grabner might have more than just dark and warm in it.
Freelance woodwind performer
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