 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Drenkier_1
Date: 2005-11-14 00:32
Hello,
My R-13 Bb and A are both Nickel clarinets because I purchased them and was told that they were the better choice.
The problem is the silver has been discolored and now they are light green almost, some algae is inside but the keys are tannish green. Anything I can do? I've polished, polished, and polished more, but these will not get out!!! I'm not really sure what to do, because the clarinet really is looking sort of ugly. I also would like to know how I can get the buffet insignia back on the bell and the upper joint.
Thanks
Kevin Collins
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-11-14 07:30
The best and quickest remedy, Drenkier, would be to machine buff the keys. That's what repair techs do when they repad your horn. Since most of us ordinary players don't own buffing machines, and usually do not intend to replace pads and cork, we use other resourceful methods.
I've been very successful with Flitz Metal Polish on nickle keys. Apply a small amount on a soft cloth, rub the key until the tarnish is gone, then rub the polish off with a clean part of the cloth. You'll need to take the keys off to do a thorough job of it. If you're not too familiar with dismantling your instrument, I'd advise doing only one key at a time so you're sure to get it back where it belongs. A small spring hook (crochet hook will work) is a very nice tool to make getting the springs back into their cradles easier.
There are some important *don'ts* to remember:
-- Don't let yourself get in too big a hurry
-- Be careful and don't rub too close to the pads or corks.
-- Don't get stuff inside the tubes or pivot holes.
With care, you'll remove ninety-five percent of the bad stuff and Flitz claims to contain a corrosion protection ingredient.
Jewelry making supply stores and some music stores sell polishing cloths. They're pretty good. However, for the really stubborn stuff I find Flitz to be much more aggressive.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-14 11:46
There's not a lot you can do about the insignia if it's only been stamped on lightly (using a heated stamp with an adhesive gold foil) - when this wears out there's not enough depth to fill with gold paste.
If it has been stamped deep you should be in with a chance of getting some of it back. I use gilt cream, applied with an old reed trimmed for the purpose - spread this all over the logo making sure it fills all the letters and leave for 1-2 hours to dry. Then scrape off the excess with the edge of a reed (NOT with the bark side as this can scratch the wood) and polish with a clean rag. Any gold that gets into surface vessels, scratches etc. can be cleaned off with a cotton bud and bore oil, and any that is left in deep pores can be removed with a sharp point, like a scalpel blade tip or needle.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-11-14 12:55
There is little point in going to all the trouble of polishing unless you identify what in the environment is causing the tarnish.
Nickel plating NORMALLY remains bright.
However in certain environments it corrodes very fast.
When I once searched for technical knowledge on this topic I came up with rather a blank, other than a declaration that rather little was known. (Monel alloy, used for trumpet valves, contains nickel and can behave oddly too)
However at least two instrument makers have had a severe problems caused by vapours given off by materials used in the construction of the case.
I know that my newly made nickel-plated wire puzzles corroded like this overnight, when exposed to the fumes in a newly polyurethane-varnished wooden box. I therefore sometimes wonder if polyurethane foams used in case lining may be one problem material.
I have come to suspect the chemical action of certain cork greases and bore oils too, especially those based on animal fat, and those that have gone rancid.
I would also wonder about air containing salt spray from the sea, or chlorine from a swimming pool or household cleaner.
Note that a variety of nickel compounds are green.
Note that the manner in which plating is done can have a dramatic effect on its corrosion resistance. With the cost-cutting instruments makers are doing, I wonder if the standard of the plating has also been compromised.
Post Edited (2005-11-14 12:56)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-14 13:28
I hear Yamaha only use about 7 microns of SILVER on their instruments, and to me that's nothing - I like a good 25 microns, that way if there's any imperfections they can be burnished out and buffed without the worry of wearing through to the nickel flash underneath.
And too much nickel is a pain as well, if there's too much nickel under the silver, the plating will crack if the keys are bent, and the fact that as soon as the silver is fraised back from the ends of the key barrels, the fraising tool will skate on the nickel and not only blunt the tool, but too much pressure to get it to go through the nickel will flare the ends of the barrels as well. So only a few microns of nickel is enough to make a nice smooth surface for the silver to go on to and get a good finish.
More people have allergies to nickel, and it seems i the last 10 or so years more and more student model clarinets are being silver plated - but the quality is variable, and at worst the silver will come off as easily as the silver on scratchcards.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-11-14 13:31
Some techs (Mike Hammer comes to mind) use the fine wire brush buffer.
Dont even bother with plating etc.
The green is not algae. The cupric component turns green.
It will buff off with Hamach silver polish (tube)
Keep 3M tarnish papers in the case or the little sacs that DoctorsProducts (Omar Henderson) sells.
IMHO there is nothing wrong with dull nickel keys....gives horn that used-alot look. There are others who insist on silver. Choc/Vanilla.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-14 14:09
I like both the feel of unplated NS keys and silver plate, but find nickel too slippery.
Some anti-tarnish treatment that silver platers use also has a day-glo green tinge in strong sunlight.
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Author: archer1960
Date: 2005-11-15 12:40
Gordon said:
> I would also wonder about air containing salt spray from the sea, or chlorine from a swimming pool or household cleaner.
I think this is very unlikely; I live very near the ocean, and have seen none of this kind of corrosion in the 12 years I've been here. I can't comment on the rest of your possible sources, though.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-15 15:24
I only live about a mile from the sea, and have lived right on the seafront without any trouble, though the higher humidity levels are a bonus.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-11-15 19:45
Most corrosion is a combination of a VARIETY of circumstances, eg the porosity of substandard plating, in COMBINATION with corrosive atmosphere, or sweaty fingers.
So each case is different. There are many ways of doing plating, which may LOOK the same, but be very different in their resistance to corrossive elements.
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