 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kevin
Date: 2005-09-03 15:16
Anybody know how the situation with the principal oboe position is going at the New York Philharmonic? The season's just about to get underway, who's gonna be sitting there? I hope it's not going to be a case of different subs every day. This is an orchestra that seems to be finally putting together some world class quality concerts again consistently over the past year or two, and a questionable oboe position would undo some good progress.
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-09-04 08:21
really great to see people offering help to those affected by this terrible disaster. I'm sorry that from over here there is not much i can do to help.
donald
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Author: mestrin
Date: 2005-09-04 14:26
Dear Larry,
I take offense at your comment "Maybe a good time for Drucker to step aside too."
Have you been to an NYP concert recently? Did you hear Mr. Drucker perform the Prelude, Fugue and Riffs this summer or the Bartok Contrasts last spring? He is still at the top of his game and his longevity (57 years in Sept. with the orchestra) is something to be revered, admired and treasured. He is the last of the greatest generation of clarinetists this country has ever known. He is living history. He put the Nielsen and Corigliano concertos on the map!! You should go to hear him while you still can. Besides, he could still win any audition he attended!! I should know, I had the honor to perform in the second clarinet chair next to him in more than 2000 concerts at the NYP.
Sincerely,
Mitchell Estrin
Clarinet Professor, University of Florida
Educational and Creative Development Manager, Buffet Crampon USA
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-09-04 16:01
Way to go Mitch! I agree 100%.
Stanley is an institution, and should go on forever. His legacy of great concerts with the NYPO, and his list of fine students will certainly stand the test of time.
My many performances with the NYPO were made special by Stanley Drucker's great playing and musicianship.
BRAVO Stanley!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Steve B.
Date: 2005-09-04 18:14
I feel I have to jump in here. As someone who has seen far too many professional's careers cut short due to illness including my own father. I must say that I am both astounded and inspired by Mr. Drucker's longevity.
God Bless him and long may he play.
Steve Brauner
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-09-04 20:30
Let's see, larryb, Stanley's been at the NYPO for almost 55 years. He usually plays like a God, but he's been known to make some "human" mistakes. Some nights he's great, some just really good.
"I think his vibrato has gotten out of control." Your criticism of his playing?
Not bad, 55 years of playing, and you don't like his vibrato...I should only be so lucky to have such little criticism!
Keep up that sharp critical ear, it can only help your own playing improve.
Good luck,
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-09-05 00:51
Bradley,
usually, when no one knows the answer to the question, the discussion vears off into the irreverent, absurd or vicious. that's life on the clarinet bboard.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-09-05 00:55
larryb wrote:
> usually, when no one knows the answer to the question, the
> discussion vears off into the irreverent, absurd or vicious.
> that's life on the clarinet bboard.
That's life in general.
Some people move when they really dislike their neighbors ...
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2005-09-05 02:33
Looking at larryb's server, it is quite possible his wish for Drucker to retire is more selfish than just objecting to vibrato? Lots of people have been waiting for that audition, perhaps including Larry?
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Author: mestrin
Date: 2005-09-05 02:54
In order to put closure on this subject, may I make two points.
Firstly, to clarify the NYP principal oboe vacancy: There are two finalists. Each will be performing concerts with the orchestra early in the season, after the orchestra returns from tour.
Larryb, you are the one to have veered off the thread with your negative remark. You should not have made such an inflammatory comment about one of the greatest clarinetists who has ever lived. Since you have, you must be ready to hear the facts and responses from others who do not share your view.
I am deeply disapointed in the negative use of this forum and encourage others to use it for more effective discourse and the sharing of positive information in the future.
Mitchell Estrin
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2005-09-05 05:03
I don't feel that Larryb's remark was a 'negative' remark to start with. It was a simple "Maybe a good time for Drucker to step aside too." Everyone jumped on the conclusion-bandwagon to suggest that Larryb was insinuating that Drucker is a bad clarinetist or at the end of his game and should retire.
Did anyone ask Larryb what his motives were for the comment? No.
Maybe it has something to do with the idea that it would provide gainful employment for a clarinetist who has lost work due to the effects of Hurricane Katrina. That would fit with the spirit of the posting since there is a link to a site on how to help LPO musicians. Drucker will get a pension. His pension will probably still be more than any of the players in the LPO earn on a regular paycheck.
It sounds like some of you would have a coronary if someone else took over the principal clarinet spot in the NYPO. Almost as if learning a god is actually human. Drucker's great, but he is human. He will be replaced in the orchestra when the time comes, willfully or not. Why not let it be willfully (instead of pulling a Sinopoli - R.I.P.) and use the time retirement may allow to commit to teaching the younger generation all of the nuances of performing that Drucker has learned through experience so his mistakes he commited can be avoided in the early years for the coming generation(s) of players.
So, Larryb, why do you think it would be a good time for Stanley Drucker to step aside?
-pat
This will be interesting.
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-09-05 11:22
(DISCLAIMER- I REALLY LIKE STANLEY DRUCKERS CLARINET PLAYING and wish i was half as good a player as he is)
however it may come as a suprise to some people that there are people out there, even TRAINED MUSICIANS, who don't really like his playing. I've heard comments like "sounds hard and edgy" (string player, ex concertmaster of at least 2 pro symphonies... and not just here in nz)..... "when he plays with vibrato his sound becomes hollow" (brass player). Those are the only two comments i can quote relatively accurately, and are both from established and successful musicians who have giged in NY
it doesn't matter if they're right or not.... just that it is actually acceptable for there to be contrasting opinions.
donald
ps- i told a colleague last weekend that Dieter Kloecker's playing annoys me like crazy. She looked at me like i was from mars.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-09-05 13:04
Drucker will retire when he's good and ready to. He might have to die first, but he will know when it's time to stop. His playing is still superb, and though some may not like it - that is pretty standard for players in a position like that to be loved and hated.
What clarinet player is universally loved? (not a single one anywhere ((even Ricardo!))
His record though is beyond reproach - simply amazing.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-09-05 13:27
pzaur is correct about the motive and context behind my rather flip drucker comment, if anyone really cares (I'd be shocked if anyone really did).
I have no doubt I'll nail the audition when the time comes - I can wait.
so much hyperventilenting - I only expected to see some clever limerics in response! The poets must be on vacation.
Mark, the thing about the internet, is that it has created a world of neighbors. It's not so easy to move away. Even if you block people from posting, they can still watch...
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-09-05 13:48
larryb wrote:
> Even if
> you block people from posting, they can still watch...
Yup. All six people that are blocked I'm sure do.
Bu they don't have to if it upsets them so.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-09-05 14:08
Back on track....
I am amazed none of the resident kibbitzer here picked up and carried the fun of that post that not so slyly proffered Blair Tindall for the job. For those interested, I wrote a customer review of her book (Mozart in the jungle) on Amazon. So did the present oboist of the NYPO. His review was more succinct than mine.
Who ARE the two prospects?
FWIW I have the DVD of the Berstein Young Peoples concerts. One of the joys is hearing and seeing Drucker. And wasn't that a great series of shows!
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2005-09-05 14:11)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-09-05 14:21
Allan - wow, I'm getting that DVD. Didn't know it was out!
When I was 3-5 my mother used to drag me to the tv to watch it. But I'd only stay for a couple of minutes as I had no interest in it at all.
When I did become interested in it the show was long gone.
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Author: vin
Date: 2005-09-05 14:32
One of the prospective candidates is a Chinese kid a few years out of Curtis and the other is an older, more experienced person who has had an orchestra job for many years. (so I heard)
Drucker is a legend, no doubt about that. That doesn't mean everyone has to like the way he sounds and/or keep quiet about it. I think as long as people can explain their opinions and acknowledging Stanley's epic contribution to clarinet playing, they should be able to express opinions about his playing, good or bad. True, the man should be given the benefit of the doubt and he is the king of getting around the clarinet. It is also true that many people don't like his sound.
How can we begin to talk about tone production and phrasing and music on this BBoard if we don't express what we don't like in addition to what we do?
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-09-05 14:39
Re the Young Peoples concerts DVD:
The local NPR station which broadcasts the Pittsburgh Symph. offered it as a reward for pledging money to the station.
I think it is available on Amazon etc. retail approx $200
The producer is Kultur.
there are 9 DVDs with a total of 27 hours of Lenny.
The early shows were from Carnegie hall and the recording is bad. McGinnis was principal clar. About 2 years into the shows, SD moved up. Julius Baker took over later as flute. The trumpeter is great, and Corigliano Sr. was concert master.
As time went on, they moved to Philharmonic Hall and gained better recording technology and even color broadcasts. Lenny, however, got more gray hair and perspired profusely as time went on.
Back to OBOE:
Gomberg (Harold) was the oboist....and he is simply amazing.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2005-09-05 14:41)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-09-05 14:54
vin wrote:
> How can we begin to talk about tone production and phrasing and
> music on this BBoard if we don't express what we don't like in
> addition to what we do?
Expressing either involves a cost in thought - a clear explanation why or why not, not just a simple "I like" or "I don't like" or "He/She does X, and I don't like it". That communicates nothing of value. Instead, one must reflect on the underlying reason and try to make it clear what they are talking about.
Oftentimes, when one does make that effort, on reflection it becomes clear that what one thought was the reason isn't the root cause. It becomes something else. If, as one person here on the BBoard recently wrote the reason is (paraphrasing liberally),"he plays the way I've been taught not to and tried not to for many years" it becomes a revelation for many who think the same way but never stopped to analyze just exactly why they didn't like the sound. It doesn't make the reason right or wrong, but provides a basis for comparison.
There are other times when one gets educated; many people think Robert Levin's playing of Mozart pieces (with his improvised ornamentation and other goodies) to be tantamount to sacrilege, but as far as we can tell today, it is an accurate reproduction of performance practices of Mozart's time. Some people's taste in Mozart has been shaped by what they've heard, accurate or not to the composer's intentions, and any deviation sounds "wrong". Even with education one's opinion may not be changed, but at least the person will have a rational reason for why they hold the opinion.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-09-05 15:24
"...so much hyperventilenting - I only expected to see some clever limerics in response! The poets must be on vacation..."
We're still here. How's this one?
While Stanley remains in his chair,
The others yell - "Hey, that's not fair"
So to make ends meet,
Since they can't compete,
They just play on the street in Times Square...GBK
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Author: vin
Date: 2005-09-05 20:18
Mark-
I agree with what you are saying 100% and many offhand, negative comments on this board are not thought out. But it's almost impossible to criticize anything about any great player without someone saying "what do you know", etc. As you know, part of becoming a great player is figuring out what you like and don't like and WHY (as you pointed out so well), and then being able to sound exactly the way you want (which is why Drucker is great). Drucker certainly has opinions (positive and negative) on the other great clarinetists of his time; the rest of us clarinetists have ears too and hopefully we use them.
Some people think Stanley has a perfect tone; some people think it sounds loose. It IS indeed possible that both are right (it is a matter of opinion). Anyhow, he's still a legend and I hope he continues in the Phil as long as he can.
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-09-05 21:00
I got a bit worried when there was a suggestion regarding a limerick about a man called Drucker :-D
Best regards
Roger
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Author: CPW
Date: 2005-09-05 22:09
Ol Stanley, He is like
Dorian Gray
Around the edges
He does not fray
Wind him up in his
bib and tucker
That Drucker dude
is an ageless .................great clarinetist.
This thread was about
a double reed horn
And degenerated into
something forlorn
So get back in groove
and talk about the oboe dude
lest we all get to snooze
but not with Tindall do I choose.
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
Post Edited (2005-09-05 22:15)
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