 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Drenkier_1
Date: 2005-01-02 23:42
Vandoren reeds are giving me nothing but trouble now. It seems like every year they are getting worse and worse in quality and the reeds are becoming a lot more unreliable. Anybody have a suggestion as to a diffrent reed brand? I would really appreciate it. I normally play on the Vandoren Tranditionals 3 1/2, which is what most people play on. I would like to know about another brand, and what strength would be appropriate for it. Thanks
Kevin Collins
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2005-01-03 00:00
I doubt the reeds are getting worse- you're probably just getting better. I've realized that's happened to me with equipment over the last year or two, and since I know you're a student too, that might be the case.
Anyway- try Gonzalez FOF and Regular Cuts and Rico Grand Concerts (traditional woud be closer to Vandoren Trads I guess, but I think you should try thicker blanks like the Evolutions and regular Thick Blank if you have not already).
Bradley
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Author: Lynn
Date: 2005-01-03 00:06
Kevin,
If you can find them, Van Doren "hand select" seem to provide a bit more quality and possible cane age than do the traditional 'blue box' reeds. "Selects" still seem to require lots of tweaking and adjusting........guess that's just part of the quest. I've recently gotten three out of a box of ten that I can depend on......think I'll try the Gonzales soon.
Lynn
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Author: Clarinetlover18
Date: 2005-01-03 00:11
Kevin, It isn't just you. I completely agree. The quality of Vandoren reeds has increasingly become worse as time has gone on. I have no clue why, but they have become worse. I still use them, but only because I have yet to find anything better. I have tried the Vandoren Rue Lepics, and they have proved to be pretty good. I am not gone on them, but they get the job done pretty well. Try those and see what you think!
Carla
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Author: Aussiegirl
Date: 2005-01-03 01:54
Ive been using the ones that some in a black box...56 something? They work better than the normal ones for me.
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Author: earlthomas
Date: 2005-01-03 01:55
Not meaning to contradict or offend, but I'm having no problem with my recent and/or not so recent Vandorecn reeds. I would inform that the V12 (silver box) are my preference. I'm also anxious to try the new Rue Lepic. I've never seen the "hand select", but I've tried and liked the "Black Masters" to a point.
Perhaps your mouthpiece may be slightly out of adjustment. Tweaking with reeds is "de rigeur" and the better one becomes at "adjusting" the better the results. There are a lot of articles and hints on adjusting from Armato to Opperman to mention just a couple of expert possibilities. Van Doren has been around for years and "tho I, and many of my colleagues tried Morree and Duques reeds and many others over the years, I think we all seem to return to Van Doren eventually. Morree's were great, but they're no longer available and probably never will be. Their cut and style are being copied and will continued to be copied until someone gets it just right. You might be happier with Gonzales, Olivieri (sp?), Rico Concert Grande, Zorba, etc. Happy hunting!
All the best!
ET
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-01-03 02:16
earlthomas wrote:
> Morree's were great, but they're no longer available and
> probably never will be. Their cut and style are being copied
> and will continued to be copied until someone gets it just
> right.
The cut and the style of Morré reeds were not the only thing that set them apart from most (all) other reeds. The cane was far superior to anything we have since seen.
A number of companies have reeds patterned loosely on the Morré style, but their cane is still not of the quality of the older (pre 1970) Morré reeds. At this point in time, IMO, Gonzalez comes the closest to the cane which Morré reeds were famous for.
One of the biggest complaints about Vandoren reeds is cane, which many feel, is not sufficiently aged. Thus, as has been suggested many times on this board, start dating and storing your reeds. Many of my colleagues have found that an additional 6 months to a year in storage has had a BIG difference on the number of reeds which can be developed into concert quality ...GBK
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2005-01-03 03:07
I hate Vandoren too - they're just a waste of money, which is especially bad for students like us who can barely afford our rent or whatever as it is. We can't really go out and buy 10 boxes of reeds and put them away for a year; I go from box to box, which is all I can afford.
So far, Gonzalez has saved me money, improved my articulation and given me great projection and a nice focussed tone. They are also proving to last long, so far, but I haven't been on them that long.
If you're on 3 1/2 Vandoren, try 3 or 3 1/4 on Gonzalez FOF.
Good luck, and let's all show Vandoren where to stick their immature cane.
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! ![[down]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley23.gif) Buffet
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Author: clancy
Date: 2005-01-03 03:26
I will add to the list, Vandoren reeds have given me nothing but grief lately. I have been traveling quite a bit lately and live in a very nasty environment for reeds, but even still they have been just horrid. I heard a rumour that they are not aging the reeds nearly as long as they should be any more, so we are getting extremely unstable reeds. Who knows.
Im not sure what else to try either, Gonzalez seems ok to me, but are a very different entity than V 12s. If anyone out there has left V12s, what did you switch to and why?
C
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-01-03 06:08
I use mostly Grand Concert and sometimes Gonzalez. You always have to settle. From what I have found Gonzalez (FOF, I will try the regulars soon I hope) have more good reeds per box (almost all of them) but the GC last longer.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-01-03 06:32
To forever let all your reeds sit for a year or so requires just a one-time investment, LeWhite, and for me (could be voodoo, who knows), it's already greatly paid off with an extremely low occurrence (1 per box?) of "bad" reeds. Each time you buy one box, try buying two instead, and break in just a few from each box. When you're half way through a box, buy another couple. After a few months, you'll be boxes ahead. From then on out, buy a box whenever one is empty.
I've finally reached an equilibrium with my reedness. Granted, my rotation includes 6 sizes spread across 3 makes. However, I find that the weather makes a bigger difference, and even what kind of day I'm having. Each reed in my rotation, which is 2/3 Vandoren and 1/3 Gonzalez, has its good days. I play each reed rarely enough (once a week, perhaps) that most last for months.
Whether or not my system does any good at all, I don't know. I do know, however, that once I have a method, I'm confident that I'll always have a couple really good reeds in my rotation. This assuredness alone lets me worry less about the reeds, and in turn, I play them better. If you expect grief from any part of the instrument, you're likely to get it.
What I do know is that I have 11 open boxes between new and three years old, break in 6 reeds at a time (a la Larry Guy book) about every two months, and am happier with reeds than I've ever been. Whether this is due to better reeds, technique, my Backun barrel, or good weather, or if I just THINK I'm playing better, I don't know.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-01-03 07:31
That is very different than my method. IT's working for me so I'll describe it, it's pretty simple.
I try a reed. Good? Use it. Bad? Try another one. I do this until I find a good one, usually the first or second I try. When I find a good one I play with it until it's not playable anymore and then find another good one.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2005-01-03 07:56
EEBaum , some of us can't really afford a one-time investment either. But not to despair I only play Gonzalez now.
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! Buffet
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Author: Wes
Date: 2005-01-03 08:01
Happy New Year and good reeds to all!
Many comments have been made about Van Dorens being bad, for more than 40 years. Maybe they'll get it right someday.
Leaky clarinets, misadjusted clarinets, chips in wood toneholes, bad pads, warped mouthpieces give symptoms similar to reeds that are not so good. So if one can make sure that the other equipment is good, then maybe more reeds will be good.
Both the Rue Lepic and Black Master are fine reeds but they have a narrower butt and a tendency to be an iota higher in pitch as a result. The cane seems great.
On opening a new box of V12's the other day, I concluded that, while I won't immediately use any of them, the entire bunch will be fine, after slight sanding and trying several times. This is on a new R13 which is in excellent condition.
Good Luck!
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2005-01-03 08:16
I have switched from V12 to the blue box vandoren. They are working just fine. I don't have favourite reeds and don't mark them. I always grab 4 reeds from a reed case and pick the best. If I am practicing I make a point of playing on 4 or 5 reeds during the session selecting them arbitrarily. Of course you should weed out any terrible reeds from your reed case. I use 3 cases of 12 reeds and introduce new reeds gradually. I am unfamiliar with Gonzalez reeds but I will try them. Are the strengths similar to Vandoren? Thanks
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2005-01-03 08:25
My response re switching from V12 in out of sequence...somehow I goofed. Thanks
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-01-03 08:49
Unscientifically by memory, my experience ranks them like this, softest to hardest (within brackets are somewhat close to each other):
56 3.5, [V12 3.5, 56 3.5+, Gzz 3.5], [V12 4, Gzz 3.75], Gzz 4.
My best reeds more often come from the first bracketed group, but I've had excellent ones at all points in the spectrum aside from the Gonzalez 4, which I can barely get a note out of. Some of the 56 3.5s are quite soft, and I tend to pull them out on days of LONG playing where I don't want to completely kill my chops. I have the highest success rate with the 56 3.5+.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2005-01-03 12:10
I play Vandoren and love them.....
Usually I get about 5 good reeds and 3 concert reeds out of one traditional pack, but I do play them in slowly and let them adjust in the beginning.. this seems to do the trick for me!
I've also tried many other brands, but I still think Vandoren is one of the best brands! But I would like to try the gonzalez FOF....any suggestion about where to buy them in the Netherlands?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-03 13:42
I'm using up a box of Vandoren V12s right now (needed reeds badly, so went to the local store and bought a pack). I'm rotating through the ten of them and they all seem to play fine to me. Although maybe I'd think differently if I had a box of Gonzalez reeds to play right next to it (and could do a side by side comparison). But for right now, they seem to be doing fine. I can practice on them all and could probably perform on a few and not be hung up or worrying about my 'bad reed'.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: lycfmtkl
Date: 2005-01-03 14:35
In Hong Kong where I am living, Grand Concert, Vandoren reeds are available with good price in the local music store. I've been using them for a long time. But there is no Gonzalez for sale here.
As I saw very good comment in using Gonzalez reed in this forum, I bought a pack of Gonzalez from woodwind and brass through their web site with shipping by airfreight courier some time ago. The cost of shipping was even higher than the pack of Gonzalez's cost!
Last time about a month ago, I ordered two packs of Gonzalez reeds from The Doctor. He shipped the reeds together with other accessories to me by air mail. The shipping cost is very low. He is a friendly and helpful seller to deal with too.
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Author: earlthomas
Date: 2005-01-03 15:29
Dear GBK:
Thanks for quoting my post. While it's true that Morrè reeds had great cane,
were there not times when at some point, your best Morrè would get all
wrinkled at the tip - no matter how careful you may have been about storing it? Did you not notice that you were very limited in possible "shading" potential with a Morrè, ie, they all sounded as they wanted you to sound, and not they way you may have wanted to sound? Don't get me wrong, I loved them and still have quite a few of them and Vandoren V-12's "In storage".
But, rather than whinning about reeds, I just get out the knives, files, #400 sandpaper, etc. and start adjusting. One of the many great things I learned from Joe Allard was a little about reed adjustment and the Bonade, Opperman and Armato publications plus that which Joe showed me have helped me out of more than one problem reed situation. I say to one and all: "Go ahead and try all the reed brands you like, and Good Luck", but learn something about adjusting, rotation, storage. Lots of great players still make their own reeds. Perhaps somebody on this topic has an idea about a supplier of good blanks. Maybe Kalmus?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-01-03 15:50
Earl:
Ah... The good old days....
Sure, there were some Morré reeds which were duds and did not have enough fibers extending to the tip area, thus wrinkling and playing poorly.
However, I found many more of those poorer reeds after the early 1970's than before. Later production Morré reeds declined severely as the cane quality worsened - probably one of the reasons for the eventual termination of the brand.
The Morré reeds of the late '60's, which I remember well (and still have a few boxes left) were in my opinion the best reeds ever produced. Many of them played perfectly right out of the box, with no adjustments at all. Others, took very little effort to become concert quality.
As many have said before, Vandoren put the V12 reed on the market in the mid '80's as a "replacement" to the Morré reed, which had ceased being produced. However, the cane and cut was not the same - hence the difference...GBK
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2005-01-03 15:59
One good source for good reed blanks is Neuranter, who also makes a very good finished reed.
http://www.neuranter.fr
I make my own reeds from tube cane from many different sources. However, I agree, it is a must for players to learn about a few simple adjustments to commercial reeds to make most reeds play "better" - be they Vandoren, Gonzalez, etc....
Though I make some reeds for my students, I also will help adjust their commercial reeds, whatever it is they are playing on. I have found the Gonzalez, Vandoren, Vandoren V12, Vandoren Black Master to be pretty good; I was, and am not, impressed at all by the Vandoren rue Lepic reeds.
Tom
www.thomaspiercy.com
Tom Piercy
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2005-01-04 13:03
I have not had any trouble at all with the recent batch of Vandoren reeds I have bought...#4 V12 and #4 Blue box work great...I really think letting reeds bog down your own playing says something about the player and their own respective technique. Always have a few reeds working at a time and this tends to make the break in process less painful.
David Dow
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Author: Iacuras
Date: 2005-01-04 22:37
I have noticed the degredation in the quality of Vandorens too. Esspecialy in the Bass Clarinet reeds. I recently made the switch to Gigliotti, and have loved them. They offer a deeper, darker, more rich sound than vandoren ever did. I would suggest them.
Steve
"If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon."
"If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly."
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-05 14:20
After some further practicing on them and some adjusting, I'm really liking this V12s. I think my next box will be them also. Just an update.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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