 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Miami dad
Date: 2004-08-18 21:40
My son's new band director has decreed that all the clarinet players should use a Vandoren B45 mouthpiece. He is currently playing a 5RV Lyre and is happy with it. What would be the purpose of having everyone use the same mouthpiece?
Thanks
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-18 21:50
Ask your band director if he also believes that everyone should wear the exact same shoe size.
Tell him/her to take a refresher course in woodwind techniques...GBK
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-08-18 21:53
My word...why??
There is something to be said for professional sections all using similar manufacturers for their instruments (a very small something)...but I can't see any sense in the B45 'requirement'.
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Author: glin
Date: 2004-08-18 21:54
In theory, assuming the mpc (B45) is consistently good and matches well with each kid's clarinet, you would stand a greater chance of getting a better balanced and uniform sound. But that is not the case. Each mpc will have variances. Plus, each clarinet has variances even if they are of the same make. The best bet is to make sure each kid's setup has something that works well. The B45 myth has been propogated to band directors throughout time-it is IMHO not the best choice out there for a consistent well made mpc. There are better mpc's out there. If the 5RV Lyre works well, stick with it.
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Author: Miami dad
Date: 2004-08-18 21:58
I think what he really wants is to get all the kids off the junk stock mouthpieces that come with the rental clarinets. Probabaly heard that the B45 is a good all round mouthpiece.
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Author: CPW
Date: 2004-08-18 21:59
Sounds like a great idea ......as long as all the players are identical clones.
![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-18 22:02
"...Probabaly heard that the B45 is a good all round mouthpiece..."
He didn't hear it here ...GBK
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Author: John_May
Date: 2004-08-18 22:12
The B45 LYRE is decent for bending notes... but I can't say I have any affection at all for the regular B45. I've never agreed with the opinion that it makes the best student mp... he might have a case if he asked everyone to try Fobes' debut (I tried one a few weeks ago, and I wish I had one back in school). But I much prefer the 5rv lyre in most situations. Someone should probably appeal that director's decision.
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-08-18 22:13
GBK,
Thank you, I had a good laugh over your shoe size comment.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2004-08-19 00:23
Miami dad --
First suggestion: These newer Vandoren mpcs have the facing number painted on in gold lettering which usually rubs off within 48 hours. Get yourself a tiny paintbrush and a can of gold paint at the hobby store and paint "B45" on your son's 5RVL. I guarantee that this band director will never know the difference.
Second suggestion: (if you are willing to indulge in a little white lie), you might want to have your son tell the band director that dad sent the 5RVL to Dave Spiegelthal (a most capable mouthpiece refacer and a frequent and knowledgeable poster to this board) and he refaced it to a B45.
Most all of these band directors recommend the B45 because they have heard the name so often. They do the same thing in recommending the Selmer C* sax mouthpiece.
Makes them sound like they know something about mouthpieces. If this guy knew anything about mpcs, and wanted the section standardized on a Vandoren mpc, he would have recommended the 5RVL.
An even better bet for standardizing the section would be either the Hite Premiere or Fobes Debut which are excellent student mpcs and sell for significantly less money than the Vandorens.
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Author: chicagoclar
Date: 2004-08-19 00:42
I've been teaching at a number of band camps this summer, and one of the schools I'm at requires B45, Vandoren #4, Rovner Ligature, Accue Barrel...ect. It's actually pretty scary. They are all very brignt sounding and a lot of the kids struggle to get a sound on a 4. I told the kids to file down the reeds, but I couldn't help much in the other areas. I was able to convince a couple of schools to let the kids use what works for them and to have suggested options for replacement if their setup wasn't working. This seems to be the best option and this band sounds good.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-08-19 02:07
Great tips, John!
I like the paint techniques you suggested...
;)
Katrina
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-08-19 06:00
The band director is obviously NOT a clarinetist ... otherwise he would make such a risible comment ...
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
Post Edited (2004-08-19 06:44)
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Author: kdennyclarinet
Date: 2004-08-19 06:11
I agree with a lot of the suggestions above... Rather than restating... I'll just add one point that hasn't been made yet. Have you thought about having your son play on his 5RV for the director then play on the B45 too? You might suggest this idea. This way, the director will be able to hear the difference and might actually learn something from the experience.
Just a thought.
K. Denny
PS. I'm a band director and clarinetist. I play on Brad Behn's professional "Artist" model mouthpiece. He has recently manufactured a new line of student mouthpieces that are of remarkable quality that encourages young players to play a more characteristic clarinet sound from the beginning. The prices are less than half of the B45 and 5RV. As an added bonus, he offers a no fault warranty for an extra $5 on the student models. His website is www.clarinetmouthpiece.com.
BME, MM, DMA
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-08-19 13:53
I will second the recommendation on Brad's student mouthpieces. He pays a surprising amount of attention to personally finishing these sub-$30 'pieces. Unlike the Vandies, there is no guesswork. It WILL play out of the box.
As for the band director, the assessment that he wants everyone off the crappy rental mouthpieces is probably correct. It is also probably correct that he doesn't know enough about the instrument to recommend anything better. It is also equally likely that the local music store that he deals with also doesn't know any better and gave him the B45 guidance. I'm sure if your son shows him the 5RV, he'll get a pass.
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Author: johnsonfromwisconsin
Date: 2004-08-19 14:43
Quote:
As for the band director, the assessment that he wants everyone off the crappy rental mouthpieces is probably correct. It is also probably correct that he doesn't know enough about the instrument to recommend anything better.
I agree. I'd also like to comment that it's probably a bit hard for a Band instructor, I'd imagine, to truley have the wherewithal to know any better. After all, he has to oversee the advancement of players covering dozens of instrument types and probably can't afford the time of being a true equipment expert on more than even a few of them, even if that director had such inclination. Of course, a band director likely has a lot of other things on his plate as well.
If this director's motive is to simply get them off a piece of junk, surely the mouthpiece he establishes as his 'norm' is no more than a suggestion and it shouldn't be any problem substituting another, I'd recon.
-JfW
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-08-19 15:04
Hi,
As a former HS band director, I want to speak in the director's behalf on one point. Perhaps Miami Dad's son heard one thing and remembered another.
The director might has "suggested" that the B45 or the eqivalent would be the perferred mouthpiece. Miami Dad, have you asked the director for a clarification? If not, then perhaps that might calm the MP waters. As a parallel, a lot of trumpet and cornet players start on Bach 7Cs.
HRL
PS John Scorgie, FWIW I own a whole bunch of alto and tenor MPs (Meyer, Brilhart, several Berg Larsens, Gregory, Selmer C, a vintage Selmer E - the MP I played all through college and the Army-, and others). My MPs of choice on alto are a Vandoren V2 for classical and wind symphony work and, you guessed it, a short-shank Selmer C* for just about everything else. The new C* plays a little differently but not bad at all as a backup.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-08-19 15:57
I read above somewhere that the director of a school matched a #4 with a B45...I can say that this is a totally unrealistic resistance for such an open mouthpiece. As to the concept of having everyone use the same facing it is okay, but the B45 Lyre or even the B40 would be a better choice in terms of getting a sound that is more blended.
Not that some B45s are not fine...but in my experience they tend to play very shrill and lack the refinement of sound in the Altissimo...the 5RV Lyre and B40 and B45 Lyre are better choices in terms of creating a homogenous tone on the clarinet.
As to whether on could find a batch of B45s that play and even measure alike I think you are challenging yourself...the B40s are far more consistent in measurements with the gauges I use over the B45s....I have seen some B45's as open as 1.21 when they are listed at 1.19 in the tip!!!
It could also be wiser to go with the B4513 series which I feel play better in terms of sound and pitch too...
David Dow
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Author: Camanda
Date: 2004-08-19 18:10
I can understand perhaps the director making a suggestion for the kids who are on stock mouthpieces, but requiring any one piece? My director is a trumpet player and he has asked many clarinet players to move to a better mouthpiece. He just tells us to try as many as we can and pick what we like best, which is how I think he should do it, especially not being a clarinetist. He'll name off brands to look at, but not models. If there's something in particular going on, he'll either let it go on to the kid's private teacher, he'll ask me or my stand partner to talk to the kid's parents if there is no private teacher.
His biggest mouthpiece issue is the brass players who switch between three or four mouthpieces. He has himself a good bit of yelling in that situation.
I say if your son is comfortable with his 5RV Lyre, he should stick to it. That's what my stand partner uses and she's phenomenal. If you want to lie about it, use John's suggestion...though it might not work if the other kids have B45s and don't sound as good as your son does on his "refaced" mouthpiece.
Amanda Cournoyer
URI Clarinet Ensemble, Bass Clarinet
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Author: vrufino
Date: 2004-08-19 18:32
This brought back memories of my freshman year in college. The college band director required everyone to play on a Blayman O'Brien crystal mpc. I was studying privately with Joe Allard in NYC, and many of his students know that Joe had definite ideas about crystal mps,(negative). Five of us in the section studied with Joe and we all refused to change. The band director backed down.
As others have posted one size does not fit all. If everyone in the section were still using their 4th grade beginner mpc, this might be a good idea , because then everyone would benefit from a change from a beginner mpc to a professional, however, in your child's case, this might not be a change for the better.
Dr. vrufino
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2004-08-19 18:45
Requiring every body to use the same mouthpiece is already bad in itself.
Requiring young students to use a nototriously difficult mouthpiece to play is ridiculous.
A 5RV Lyre is perfectly acceptable and will get you a long way.
-S
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2004-08-19 21:18
(Disclaimer - I am a maker of the Forte' clarinet and sell Gennusa student mouthpieces)
Let me say first that the band director's job is a difficult one and often, if they are not woodwind players by education, they get bad advice from music stores or other sources on what to ask their students to use. Many musical educators conventions will have clinics on various sections of the band and instruments which are taught by educators and band directors themselves that were educated on a particular instrument and have the practical band experience of what works and what does not in that setting. Second, the B-45 was not one of the student mouthpieces tested (too expensive for our purposes).
In the course of trying to decide what student mouthpiece to supply with the Forte' clarinet (of course cost had to be a factor) I undertook a practical experiment. (Note - you statisticians and other survey experts will find fault with the experimental design, but it was the least expensive and fit into the time frame available and with too many variables to adequately test given the sample size) We got several student mouthpieces from ones that had been suggested to us by educators and teachers which included 3 each of the Hite Premier, Fobes Debut, and Gennusa GE*S. I did a crossover study with middle school and beginning high school students at local schools and supplied the Forte' prototype clarinet with two mouthpieces of each type with black electrical tape over the names and new Gonzalez F.O.F. Reeds at the strength requested by the student. If the requested strength was perceived as too strong or too weak we would supply a new reed of the appropriate strength. I had them play - with music on the stand - some easy scales which encompassed all three registers. Next I had them use the same mouthpieces, music, and reed with their own clarinet and the same scales. Afterward I administered a questionnaire with check questions (the same question asked slightly differently) concerning several aspects of their impressions of the mouthpieces, and of course the new clarinet.
Some of the general observations - the students were of various skill levels but all could play the scales through at least the clarion register and a smaller group through the altissimo. The range of reed strengths averaged a little over a #3, the median was #3.25 with a couple #2.5 and a couple #4 (n=20). All three mouthpieces were perceived as "playing easily", there was little difference in perception within a mouthpiece pair and only slightly better scores for one mouthpiece - the Gennusa GE*S. The Gennusa was overall (pooling a number of questions related to playing characteristics) the winner with the Forte' clarinet and also better (but not significantly better) with their own clarinets. I won't bore you with the whole experiment but I think that it brings up some interesting points about student mouthpieces.
Interestingly all the student mouthpieces tested had a medium opening which is less than the B45. One could of course argue that tip opening is but one facet of the total performance of the mouthpiece but also a significant contributor. The reed strengths used averaged way less than #4 for the student to be comfortable playing even their own clarinet. Evaluations of how the students perceived the tone were totally scattered and thus an outside objective analysis is needed.
My own thoughts are that a student who is developing, or on the road to perfecting their embouchure needs a mouthpiece that is compatible with this aim. I believe that a mouthpiece that is "open" requires a softer, not a harder reed and that tone control is only achieved with embouchure development and this development starts with a mouthpiece with a "medium" and not an "open" tip. The usual caveats apply - every person is different, the B45 has been around for a long time and is used by many players, this experiment is not an "end all" on this question but only a snapshot and not the total picture. I believe any of the mouthpieces tested, and not excluding many others in this category, is a good beginning and intermediate mouthpiece for students.
The Doctor
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-08-19 21:56
Omar,
No problem from me about the experimental design; a double blind would have given you more vaildity but hey, sometimes, practicallty is the best approach.
The word "perceived" might raise some hackles here and there but....
HRL
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2004-08-19 22:41
Hank - you are of course right about double blind study, but only in multi-center, multi-million dollar clinical trials is this remotely possible. We have a cadre of statisticians that advise us on experimental design and I was hoping that some small amount has worn off on this grunt scientist. The correct term probably should be "observed and reported by the participant" rather than "perceived".
The Doctor
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-08-19 23:16
This sounds like how our new band director told all of us to use V12 reeds. But for everyone to get a B45? I don't really see a need for everyone to have the same mouthpiece. I get a better sound on a Buffet Band Master mouthpiece than I ever got on a Vandoren mouthpiece.
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2004-08-20 01:38
I think that the bandmaster should have insisted that all the members play on a Vandoren Crystal A-1 since GBK uses one.
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
On second thought, I think they should all use a Livingood refaced 1950s Chedeville filigree model or a Sayer refaced Kaspar. (calling all ebay freaks)
On third thought....there is this guy in New York with a Lelandais that he has had for neary fifty years. Since it is so old, maybe he would sell it to the band and they could pass it around (dont Bogart that joint style), as long as they agree to keep the ligature low down.
ps. Mark, Glenn...we need more smileys
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-08-20 06:07
i don't like B45 mouthpieces
i have my little theory as to why they seem to be popular- students are sometimes (not always) unwilling to move up in reed strength as they improve. Often their tone development etc can stagnate, a major reason being that they don't want to use harder reeds.... this is often when someone will advise "you need a better mouthpiece"
if that student tries a B45, there is a good chance that it will be more open that the mouthpiece that they've been using- thus having a similar effect to using a harder reed, and creating a improvement in tone...
just my little theory (by an elk)
donald
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Author: Fred
Date: 2004-08-20 11:02
I'd love to hear the band director demonstrate this superior setup. What do you suppose he'd sound like on a B45 and 4's?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-08-20 14:01
During WWII the B-17 was a significant bomber, and then there was the B-29. "B-45" would just have to be greater. Just another theory.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-08-20 14:54
BobD,
North America B-45 "Tornado" bomber, one of the first jet-powered bombers, twin engines and non-swept wings, see:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/b-45.htm
Not greater than the B-17 or B-29, sad to say.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-08-20 15:01
Corrections to above (I typed too fast):
1) North American, not North America
2) B-45 was a four-engined bomber, with pairs of engines podded together.
Sorry, all clarinetists need to know such things.............
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2004-08-20 17:12
donald/nz --
FWIW --
I'll bet that your "little theory" on the popularity of the B45 is the principal reason why the B45 was developed and why it has been so successful in the marketplace.
Although the B45 is not exactly my cup of tea, I enjoy playing my B45 when the music warrants use of this type of mpc.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-08-20 23:54
Unfortunately, there are a number of band directors who go for the "one size fits all" approach. I think the thought process is that someone told them this was the answer and they think they will get consistency. As anyone who has measured or tried a number of mouthpieces can testify, they can vary tremendously. This goes for clarinets as well as saxes, trumpets, you name it. Just because a trumpet mouthpiece says Bach 3C doesn't mean a whole lot, except a name. You can also get 20 clarinetists in a room and all try the same mouthpiece. They will all sound different. I think it is preferable to allow flexibility as long as the results are good.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-08-21 00:19
Hi,
Aren't we hammering this band director, as well as the species, just a little bit too long? Being a director is a hard job; each instrument has its own unique and storied tricks. To know all of them is a pretty tough job.
Then you must deal with the students, parents, administrators, as well as being sure that you have a good realtionship with the custodians, cooks, bus drivers, and secretaries.
I would hope that those that have been somewhat critical have also been directors themselves and have thus "walked the walk." If not, shadow a director for one day and you will get an real education and hopefully will mellow a little bit (how's that for a 1960's term) .
To make an error such as the one described above is all in a day's work for a hard working director; it does happen. I remember my first year of teaching when I thought no males should play flute. That was long before the days of The Swinging Shepard Blues and James Galway!
HRL
Post Edited (2004-08-25 19:45)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-08-21 16:00
The B45 is certainly alot better than the crap that comes along with student model clarinets...however, it is a bit resistant even with #3 Vandy's so I just think listening to an airy B45 with a 4 reed could be
a bit trying...kind of like listening to an air compressor.
David Dow
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-08-21 17:52
Miami dad enquired: "What would be the purpose of having everyone use the same mouthpiece?"
Perhaps the director is demonstrating to the students that mouthpieces of this type do not exhibit good consistency
I own two B45s. One of them is pretty good.
Regards,
John
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Author: Drenkier_1
Date: 2004-08-23 00:19
A B45 is good for marching. Concert playing no way. But the only time I use my 5RvLyre now is for Band Practice. I use my Vintage (my lesson teacher got me it) only for chair tests and concerts. If I were you stay with the 5RVLyre, but if your son/daughter is gonna be a really good player in HS your gonna have to switch to a better mouthpiece, not meaning a vintage.
Kevin Collins
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Author: Drenkier_1
Date: 2004-08-23 00:23
Also another note, VANDOREN IS NOT NECESSARILY THE RIGHT PRODUCT! I hated my band director in 6th grade, he told us vandoren or your out. But ya know what? I used a Rinedour mouthpiece instead and he never said a word. band directors are crap heads, seriously, some of them have no idea what a good clarinet set up is. I remember one of them said everyone should play a B13 Clarinet , which he then came to realize was a plastic clarinet, and was rendered useless. Don't ever follow a band directors instructions unless he is a professional such as Randall Griffin or Chester Rowell.
Kevin Collins
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-08-23 00:32
Kevin,
You said "band directors are crap heads, seriously, some of them have no idea what a good clarinet set up is. I remember one of them said everyone should play a B13 Clarinet , which he then came to realize was a plastic clarinet, and was rendered useless. Don't ever follow a band directors instructions unless he is a professional such as Randall Griffin or Chester Rowell."
Kevin, I'm a former band director and I resent being called a "crap head" on a public BB. I think an apology is in order unless you have absolutely positive research that supports your assertion.
HRL
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-08-23 00:56
Kevin,
I found your "craphead" comment offensive too and I'm not a band director. It is unfair to generalize your negative experience. The band directors I have known were all wonderful people.
Hans
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-23 01:03
Kevin...
Mark C. and I did not delete your post (although we thought about it) because we think the band directors who post on the bulletin board should have the opportunity to respond to your accusations.
BTW - As a band director myself, I quickly dismissed the juvenile comments you wrote as coming from someone with a very limited musical education ...GBK
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Author: John_May
Date: 2004-08-23 01:36
Well, firstly, considering the B13 model was (to my knowledge) never available in the USA and is extremely uncommon, he very probably meant an R13, in which case his suggestion seems far less ridiculous. Secondly, the idea that an instrument is "rendered useless" (and I'm not exactly applauding your word choice here) if it isn't made of wood seems more or less ridiculous. The greenline should be enough evidence of that, but also, there are some extremely poor-sounding wood instruments, so generalizations of this type seem more than a little hasty.
That being said, I think everyone's taking the comments of a kid on the internet far too seriously if you're all actually offended. "People making unfounded, poorly thought out comments online" is not exactly a new phenomenon. My personal philosophy is that these people are easily dismissed and even more easily ignored.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-08-23 13:52
....and then there is the possibility that Miami Dad's kid interpreted the director's comment incorrectly. Juveniles do get colorful at times....
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Author: Drenkier_1
Date: 2004-08-24 22:36
I want to take this time to say that I apologize greatly for what was said about band directors being crap heads, that was an over generalized opinion and I greatly apologize. But there are things that I do still find about band directors that I don't like, but they aren't crap heads of any kind, nor are they stupid or senseless. Please forgive me for my post.
Sinceraly
Kevin Collins
Kevin Collins
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Author: Drenkier_1
Date: 2004-08-24 22:40
Also in context to the B13 model clarinet, Buffet still produces them and we import them to America. They are used as student model marching instruments and also as an inexpensive alternative to an E-11 Student Wood Buffet. The B-13 is not in correlation with the R-13, as the R-13 is the Wooden Clarinet most professionals and advanced students alike choose. But agian, my comments are only from what I've seen.
Kevin Collins
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2004-08-24 22:55
Drenkier......
In my neck of the swamp bandoliers come from the ranks of educayshun majors, not music majors.
NOW WAIT A SEC before flames erupt....NOTHING wrong with edu majors ....that is NOT the problem.......but the local school district/ state givment wants that lil ol educayshun certificate rather than a performance cert from Peabuckley. So ya see, if the musikfereiner at your school of cheerleadership does not know the Gran Partita from the Gran Larcenita, that is the way it goes.
Ho boy now me in bigg trubble
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-08-25 02:19
Hi Kevin,
I think your apolgy shows a great deal of maturity and restraint; admitting a public error is never easy. I commend you for your honesty. Apology accepted!
I look forward to having you make meaningful contributions on the BB in the future.
HRL
PS It is OK not to understand or like everything your band director says or does but he or she is still the director so.....
Post Edited (2004-08-25 18:08)
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2004-08-25 03:11
![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif)
Hey, I got an idea (uh oh)
Print out this thread.
Show it to the Band Director ( slip it under the door and run like heck.
Invite him/her to post reasoning here.
wish I had a light bulb smiley
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Author: terry
Date: 2004-08-25 11:30
I am one who was forced to give up my beloved clarinet due to a high school band director with a trumpet shaped head. His total lack of understanding of woodwinds combined a need to dominate a student's on-campus time and off hours was incompatible with my need to take Calculus, pre-engineering, Physics, study for same, and hold down two jobs. Thirty two years came and went and I am struggling to recover the love of music lost to this individual. More on my URL.
As for the generic comment abut band directors, it somewhat applies to my adolescent view of that band director. However, given the many, many positive experiences that I have heard about how band directors awakened (not deadened) love for music and their instrument, it cannot be true beyond a small minority
1929 matched A and Bb Herman Todt Clarinets, Chadash Mouthpiece, Fogietta reeds, http://sterkel.org/clarinet
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2004-08-25 12:31
Re: band directors
Many band directors are good. Many are bad. The one I had in HS, although really good in the eyes of parents/faculty/some students, did me a royal disservice and in IMO was a horrible example of a teacher. My parents thought he was the cat's meow until at some point the light-bulb went on. I really appreciated the day that my dad apologized to me for listening to him. Unfortunately, I was already 3 years out of HS.
I will say though that he never dictated mpc usage. {: )}
MOO,
Matt
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-08-25 14:21
Matt,
Re: "Many band directors are good. Many are bad. The one I had in HS...".
Like any segment of society, there are likely to be some people who are not very well suited to their jobs and maybe you had one of those; however, to say that "many are bad" requires some kind of proof. You cite only ONE case.
I have had experience working with seven different band directors. All were people whom I would be pleased to have as friends and competent to manage and lead, in spite of the poor quality of the "raw materials" that they often had to work with. Certainly some were better than others, just like some doctors, mechanics, bricklayers, etc. are better than others, but none deserved this kind of criticism and unfair generalization.
Hans
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Author: Camanda
Date: 2004-08-25 15:16
I have been fortunate to have good to excellent music directors and teachers throughout my time as a clarinetist. Between the 7 I have had, it's safe to say I had a personal grudge against one. She was my 24-year-old 8th-grade choir director. I never mouthed off at her and never showed her any disrespect, and tried my hardest to keep enjoying choir, but that woman just didn't let me. She was not a good teacher and refused to treat me like a human being, which I suspect was because I am a female tenor. I really don't know what else, but the alternatives are best left a mystery.
As for my current band director, I have said before and will say again that he is incredibly intelligent and has a lot of common sense. He's a phenomenal trumpet player and he knows enough about the woodwinds to help out when he has to. In fact, I'm between private instructors now and he's the one who's helping me with my All-State piece. We're doing fine, thank you. Like I've said, he'll make a suggestion to the woodwinds when he thinks it's time for someone to move to a good mouthpiece or better reeds or a better horn, but he leaves it to the student and either their private teacher or me and/or my stand partner to be more direct. He knows clarinet isn't his forte. Also, as I have said, he has enough problems handling 20 trumpets, 2 French horns, 2 trombones, and 3 tubas.
Amanda Cournoyer
URI Clarinet Ensemble, Bass Clarinet
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Author: Kevin
Date: 2004-08-25 16:00
My school's music department head is a wonder worker. He teaches orchestra, chorus, about 4 other several smaller ensembles and numerous music appreciation courses for those that don't participate in performance classes. The typical HS schedule of two evening concerts and two music assemblies are done throughout each school year as well as other appearences at festivals, nursing homes, and other events. Fundraising, budget cuts, and endless paperwork + scheduling are an example of the work he deals with. Finally, his kids perform each year for the school's graduation in Avery Fisher Hall at NYC's Lincoln Center, and you can only imagine the stressful organizing that goes into that.
Oh, and did I mention that he does all of this with personal issues which includes dealing with vocal chord damage and a wife undergoing cancer treatment? Yet he stills puts in 100% of effort and dedication into his students.
People shouldn't critisize the work of band directors if they don't show complete mastery over their music groups. I can definately say our school's music ensembles are nothing close to elite, but producing music is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what school music directors deal with. These people deserve gratefulness because they truly make the world a better place...
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2004-08-25 19:32
Hans:
My apologies. I should have said "in my experience, a couple are bad", which is somewhat fewer than many but more than one. I have experience with one more which makes "a couple" a legitimate statement.
Don't take the statement personally. For me though, it is personal as I believe it changed the course of my life. I do not support what Kevin said. My statement was overly generalizing based upon my knowledge and for that I apologize. I also know a number of music educators and know that they work hard, sometimes with limited resources.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-08-25 19:44
Since we've digressed to discussing band directors.....for my first two years in high school, our band director was wonderful --- absolutely top-notch --- inspirational, demanding but fair, with a terrific ear and always got the best results out of his players. Then, mainly because of changing school policies with which he disagreed, he quit (retired from teaching band altogether --- quite a loss!) and his replacement was a complete, total, unmitigated bozo. This new guy had no business doing anything music-related, much less trying to teach music to high-schoolers. As I was a total band nerd (band president in fact, woohoo!) I had to deal with this nincompoop much more than did anyone else in the band, and he single-handedly ruined my senior year in high school, which should have been one of the best years of my life. I find it hard to forgive the guy, yet I have enormous respect for and gratitude towards his predecessor. Both, by the way, were trumpet players.
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-08-25 22:47
Matt,
Thanks for the clarification. It appears to me that students who have had a negative band director experience may have suffered much more, or felt the pain more keenly, than students who have had a negative experience with, say, a math or English teacher. Perhaps this explains the strong reaction from some?
Regards,
Hans
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