 The Doublers BBoard
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Author: nes
Date: 2006-04-20 15:07
Hi can anyone who doubles on clarinet and saxophone please describe the difficulties when playing sax after clarinet? Are there any issues that arise or anything to watch out for?
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2006-04-20 16:44
My wife did this last year. The embouchure is an 'O' shape and a little different than the clarinet. Start with a soft reed, like a 2 and slowly work up to a 2.5 or 3. The fingering matches the clarion range of the clarinet for the most part. This is the same with the flute, for the most part.
Get a decent neckstrap. Your neck will hurt for a while so take it easy. Don't go for looks, go for comfort. As you build up your neck muscles you can get something fancier. Most of my students start with a Neotech strap.
If you are moving from a classical or concert band setting to a jazz or dance band genre, there is so much vocabulary to learn. Saxes bend notes more than most clarinetists. And if you are playing tenor sax, improv is a requirement. You will want to be able to solo by just reading the chords.
For my wife, finding the right mouthpiece, after three months of building up her chops, took some time. You don't want to get to wrapped around the axle when picking mouthpieces until you've done some time on the instrument because your embouchure changes significantly in the beginning.
Get a decent mouthpiece; Morgan, Meyer, Otto Link, and Selmer are my favs and don't cost you an arm and a leg. Stay with a 4 or 5 size mouthpiece until you have developed enough savvy and ear to control a mouthpiece with a bigger opening. Consistency is the the hallmark of a great player, not edginess. ;o)
But perhaps the best advice any beginner can receive is to get lessons from the get go. Don't try to 'learn it by reading the book'. because you may pickup bad habits that will slow or stop the adoption of a new instrument. If you think you can't afford lessons, then you probably should wait until you can. Bad habits can haunt you the rest of your playing career.
Finally, as one of the admins for Sax on the Web forums (use MSN search to find this site) I recommend you take a look at the Beginners forum for other recommendations. There are over 10,000 sax enthusiasts from all over the world on SOTW. You will probably be hard pressed to not find an answer you can endorse.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
Post Edited (2006-04-20 16:46)
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2006-04-20 19:19
Nes,
I'm not quite sure what you mean by difficulities. Could you please go into more detail.
I don't have any difficulities in switching back and forth between clarinet and tenor saxophone in doubling situations...and their embouchures are quite different.
I find the following to be helpful in doubling:
1.) A good level of training and experience on each instrument that you double on. The goal of being a good doubler is to have each of your instruments sound like it is your primary instrument. Therefore, being a good sax player and picking up the clarinet now and then is not what we're talking about.
2.) It helps to use a reasonably middle-of-the-road set up on each instrument. Nothing extreme. I use a Morgan 6L (.090) mouthpiece on tenor and a Morgan RM28 (1.28 mm) on clarinet. I'm extremely happy with these mouthpieces. The RM28 is on the open side for a clarinet piece but it's not extreme. Being more open, it feels very natural to me when I switch to clarinet from tenor. Whereas, if I used a 1.04 mm clarinet mouthpiece it might be a different story. Since my tenor mouthpiece is on the medium side (instead of being .100+) my chops don't go into shock when I pick up the tenor after playing clarinet. I spent quite a bit of time in trial & error to find a set up on clarinet and tenor that felt good to me on the individual instruments and used together in doubling. I think of this as being a very important consideration.
3.) Then, play in various kinds of musical settings and gain as much experience as you can.
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Author: liam_hockley
Date: 2006-04-20 23:35
I have to say I agree with Roger...
The most difficult thing about switching from a sax to a wood clarinet on the same gig is trying to keep your clarinet in tune after it's been sitting around for a couple tunes...
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Author: Markael
Date: 2006-04-21 01:21
Gandalfe,
What about Hite mouthpieces? Do you have an opinion on those?
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Author: Kchui999
Date: 2006-04-21 02:20
Clarinet requires a much tighter embrochure than sax does, especially if you're playing on an open mouthpiece, like..say...a link 7*. The clarinet to sax transition is a lot easier. however, going from sax back to clarinet requires you to rebuild and get used to the tighter clarint embrochure, which for me takes a minute or two.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-04-21 11:56
People sometimes recommend learning a new instrument by switching over to it completely at first, to avoid confusion. I never found that confusion was a problem, because the sax feels so different from a clarinet that I never forget which one I'm playing. For someone going from clarinet to sax, I think that it would be a big mistake to stop practicing the clarinet. The much looser embouchure for sax (the larger the sax, the looser the embouchure) means that if I lay off clarinet for more than a few days, I start losing my lip. I need to practice the clarinet much more regularly than sax to stay in shape to play it as well as possible.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2006-04-22 00:55
The goal of any single reed embouchure, is to interfere with the vibration of the reed as little as possible. In that respect there is no difference between clarinet and sax embouchure. The biggest problem I see with most clarinetists and sax players is dampening the reed by putting too little mouthpiece in the mouth.
Here is the jist of a post I did a few months back concerning clarinet embouchure. It apply's equally to sax. ESPECIALLY TENOR, BARI and Bass clarinet.
Most clarinetists don’t sound as good as they could, not because they don’t posses a $550 mouthpiece made from reproduction chedeville rubber, or because they don’t have a bell or barrel cut from a 200 year old cocobolo tree. Clarinetist sound bad, because they inhibit the reed from vibrating. Most have bought into the mis-conception of embouchure. You cannot get a clarinet reed to vibrate with your embouchure. Only in the presence of pressurize air with the reed move. You can however stop the reed from vibrating with embouchure, by using too much pressure and doing it in the wrong spot.
Follow me on this:
A. Turn the mouthpiece sideways and look at the opening of the reed and mouthpiece curve.
B. Take your thumb and press the reed closed at the tip. Notice the ease at which you can accomplish this
C. Start moving your thumb down the reed applying the same pressure. Notice when you get close to the point where the reed leaves the mouthpiece table, it’s really hard to close the reed off at the tip.
D. If your bottom lip is on the tip side of the fulcrum point, where the reed leaves the mouthpiece, you are stifling the reed’s vibration. Most likely you are using a mouthpiece that’s more open than it needs to be or you are using a reed that’s too hard also.
This is the same on Sax as clarinet. Finding the right zone also helps with Sax vibrato because at the fulcrum the reed is less sensitive to lots of jaw pressure and that makes for a more subtle vibrato.
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2006-04-26 20:21
I purchased a Hite Premium mouthpiece because a teacher told me the high schools luved them and they were inexpensive. I like them and actually have one on one of my practice instruments. But I personally, and so do some real players, feel that the Ralph Morgan, I have an RM 15, is the best mouthpiece I've ever tried.
Being a saxophonist might play into this. My wife is a serious clarinetist and she loves the Vandoren line for the control and fit and finish aspects of those mouthpieces. On sax, she fell in love with a Kessler's NY Custom--go figure.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-04-27 11:37
1. Clarinet embouchure: Stretch the lower lip so that it is quite thin over the teeth, before closing the mouth and lips. Result: Quite a narrow cushion of lip from behind the lip to the front.
Sax embouchure: Quite different: Bunch the lips into a circular opening - "oooo" shape, before closing the mouth and lips. Result: A far thicker cushion for the reed to sit on.
2. For higher notes on a clarinet the experienced player automatically uses firmer pressure from the lower lip, and more breath pressure. On a sax, do this to a far less extent, or the notes will go horribly sharp.
3. For third octave notes on sax, the shape of the back of the tongue is particularly important.
4. For low notes, particularly on the larger saxes, use a far more relaxed embouchure than you would on clarinet, and lower pressure air, even though you have to use a lot more QUANTITY of air.
5. Vibrato is almost standard, and normally done by controlled but almost imperceptible motions closing and opening the mouth.
6. Handle a sax very carefully, as if it were made of glass. They are FAR less robust than clarinets, especially the larger ones.
7. They are much more prone to mal-adjustment which causes leaks.
8. Over time, maintenance is several times more expensive.
At www.saxontheweb.net home page you will find many helpful articles for sac beginners.
Post Edited (2006-04-27 11:45)
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2006-05-14 03:34
I did sax first and then went to clarinet, which as has been said is much harder. But I've really concentrated on the clarinet, and although I'm still better and more comfortable with the sax, my confidence and ability are increasing. I have a Hite Premier mouthpiece, which is the student model, and I have continued to like it as my proficiency has increased. I think it really is a versatile and dependable mouthpiece.
Leonard
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Author: Connor
Date: 2006-05-16 23:28
This is the website of one of my classmates, he is reciving his doctoral from UNC and studies both sax and clarinet.
http://hybrid.junwatabe.com/
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Author: Ted
Date: 2006-06-15 16:50
Whenever I switch from playing clarinet to sax my fingers take a moment to remember there are no throat notes (A, Bb etc.) on the sax. After about ten seconds I'm ok.
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Author: Ken Mills
Date: 2006-07-15 22:01
Hello nes; Yikes, listen to Al Gallodoro. He can do rapid tonguing on the alto sax but not the clarinet. I know what that means. I have played all the saxes but found the tenor difficult to rapidly tongue a scale because something must be wrong with its air column. The baritone is good like the alto. You would have to use my mpc to tongue rapidly on the clarinet: the Selmer CP100 has a deep chamber and gentle facing curve. It accepts softer reeds than other mpcs that have a similar facing of 1.22mm, which is only medium, because the chamber is deeper than the others. But the high altissimo notes suffer. Well, I can still go higher than the alto and just as low on my clarinet. The Best, Ken
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Author: rcnelson
Date: 2006-07-17 12:36
I played the Reed 3 book of A FUNNY THING HAPPENED ON THE WAY TO THE FORUM this past March. It was 90% B-flat clarinet, 10% tenor sax. Being a stronger on sax than clarinet I not only found it easy, but a relief. The only issue is moisture in the sax reed. Before each performance the tenor reed needed a good soaking followed by a good warmup.
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Author: nickles8189
Date: 2006-09-02 16:44
with sax it is more of an o shape for the embrouchure, and then it's less of a tightening of the corners of the mouth. since the clarinet mouthpiece is smaller, you have to keep that in mind when playing sax and therefore not think of "squeezing" the air so much, and letting your embrouchure relax a little, otherwise you're gonna squeak. usually when someone switches from sax to clarinet, they try to overcompensate for the difference in mouthpiece size and end up squeezing too hard and squeaking on clarinet, but going from clarinet to sax, you just have to loosen up a little bit and take a more "drawstring" approach on the embrouchure (equal pressure on all sides). and you're not gonna use your lower lip as tightly as on clarinet. and you're also not biting down as much with your upper teeth. my band director was trying to explain it to us saxes in marching band rehearsal the other day, but his explanation was lost on the underclassmen when he was trying to describe the difference between sax and clarinet, but he ended up just confusing them because they're all freshmen who don't play clarinet at all. only me and this other senior play both, and the other kid wasn't even nearby to hear cuz he's on tenor sax.
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