 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-10 22:03
Nowadays we take vibrato for granted, but it's a relatively new thing considering it was rarely practiced in the early 20th century.
Leon Goossens was ridiculed for using vibrato by his fellow players back in the day (even flautists very rarely used vibrato in his early career whereas now they often overdo it beyond the point of being tasteful), but listen to his playing and we wonder what all the fuss was about as what he was doing back then set an example that we all follow now.
And from one of the vibrato pioneers, here's a taste of what he did so well, what has become widespread and what we all take for granted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxZP3aKN75A
Although there are instances where no vibrato has its place, but vibrato is what we all expect to hear from any oboist.
A documentary on Leon Goossens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTyyN_MoETg
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-03-10 22:06)
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2011-03-11 01:45
I saw the documentary a few weeks ago Chris, truly fascinating and inspiring. Goosens never ceases to amaze me, if one considers the context and time on which he was playing in.
Nowadays there seems to be a backwards trend, people are disliking singing vibrato in the playing of wind instruments. No one plays like this anymore, except perhaps Han de Vries, Hollliger...whom are all a bit out of the scene (Holliger still performs a lot apparently...but...). I heard Mayer's French cd recently and was quite surprised at his constant vibrato, fast, but narrow and hides behind his dark if not sometimes stuck sound. So, there you go!
Howard
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Author: JRC
Date: 2011-03-11 21:39
I did not know about the history of oboe vibrato. This is the first time I hear that Leon Goossens was credited for "inventing" vibrato in oboe playing. Goossens was born in 1897 and joined Queen's Hall Orchestra in 1912 at the age of 15. So if he was the originator of vibrato, it would have been later than 1912. Reginald Kell, one of the greatest clarinetists of all time and also an Englishman, was 9 years younger than Goossens. Kell also used vibrato in clarinet. I wonder if there is a connection.
I grew up worshiping Goossens and my friend clarinetist worshiping Kell. We imitated them, copy them, collected every recording we could find and studied them note by note, and listening to them days and nights. I wanted to become the next Goossens and my friend the next Kell. Those were the dream filled wonderful years. I used to practice 8 –10 hours every night and pretended as if I did not practice at all to others. And later I found out that the others were also practicing at nights and also pretending. Competitive spirits among us were very high. More than half of us later found some other ways to make living other than music and some stayed in music.
The greatest achievement of Goossens, in my mind, is that he made himself a musician. Everything about his performance was music. Oboe happened to be the one delivering the sound. He gave soul to music notes. He made every single note came alive as an essential part of his music. He always made me listen to his music and appreciate every note the composer put down, not the particular oboe sound or reed or brand of oboe.
Later I learned that Goossens happened to have used mostly one oboe throughout his long professional life, an open hole Loree, I forgot the year but it was early 1900s. I read that he lost his Loree once and recovered it later and kept playing on it until he died. (so what happens to the oboe blowing out theory?) I also read that Goossens also bought reeds from Tom Brearley most of his career and liked them over the ones he made himself. (so what happens to the theory that serious oboist must make his/her own reeds?) I am not sure what all these means. Perhaps his Loree was so special that no other could play like it. Perhaps Tom Bearley was so special that his reeds were better than any reed any one could have made. Or the instrument and reeds were not as important in making music. I tend to believe the latter.
Unfortunately such musicians are very rare especially in woodwind in recent history. In oboe, perhaps Holliger represents a modern version of Goossens and he is the only one I can think of in that class and style of musician so far. Probably Karl Leister can be counted as the modern equivalent of Reginald Kell. The second bests do not even come close. They are simply in different class and style of musicians. Yet, Holliger and Leister are not young or upcoming stars. They are approaching 70. I hear lots of oboists describe Holliger these days as “…very good but his sound is too bright!” I recently heard a “famous” Czech oboist describing Goossens in an interview: “… wonderful musician but do not like his thin sound.” I just wanted to cry.
Perhaps the concept of music is evolving. Perhaps, I need to learn to live in the world where oboe tone is the utmost importance to an oboist and therefore making reeds and choice of instrument to project that wonderful sound are the primary importance to an oboist. So important in fact, that a large number of oboists today describe the subject with some sort of religious overtone. Am I dreaming? Did I slept through the changing of the guard?
I am not sure if all the progress in oboe instrument manufacturing, reed making, and seemingly new techniques and technologies are helping or hindering oboe players to become better musicians.
Sorry about babbling about it. Chris’ post touched something deep inside of me.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2011-03-11 23:59
'Musicality' is an elusive thing but has to do with presence and expression, somehow, through the means of an instrument. I think in our world of Specialization we've gotten very, very technical and forget about the many artists who 'made do' with less than Perfect Instruments, and their Musicality shone through nonetheless BECAUSE their focus was the Music.
Seem obvious, but I too am guilty of obsessing over a reed adjustment as opposed to taking more time to listen to its quirks before I act.
I doubt I will ever be able to afford a Really Superb oboe, so I try to take care of what I have and make the thing(s) sing. It would be nice to have a state-of-the-art instrument, but I can actually be quite happy without one; as long as you can convey shade and nuance through your chosen means, and whether or not you make your own reeds, etc., you can give Music.
Although I've listened to recordings of famous oboists, my teacher's sound stands foremost in my memory, and his style creeps into my playing. I think what we can be thankful for is the People, famous or not, that opened up the world of a very emotive instrument to us, and honor them (or their memory) by playing as well as we can.
GoodWinds
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Author: Pattyoboe
Date: 2011-03-14 05:44
I've been reading Mozart's letters and he complains about someone's overuse of vibrato (I don't have the book with me and I'm out of town at the moment, so I can't write more than that at the moment). I was fascinated to read that even back then vibrato was an issue!
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2011-03-14 10:21
As a flautist, vibrato is one of those things that constantly gripes me. Maybe I am just fussy, but I find that many performers use it inappropriately. Flute players, like Chris says, just overdo it. It becomes the point of the sound rather than one of many tools used to express and colour an already developed sound.
Pattyoboe, it is my understanding that they understood the technique of vibrato even in the baroque, but as far as flute players are concerned, with the birth of Quantz' The Art of Flute Playing, vibrato was largely frowned upon, perhaps for the reasons we speak of now, in an effort to return to allowing the tone and music to express itself. I don't know if this also relates to oboists (my oboe history is sadly lacking a little!) but I do remember reading the Mozart letters you are talking about!
To me, vibrato is a technique we can employ in our search of expressing music, as is articulation, dynamics, phrasing, timbre, emphasis, etc. It is not the be all and end all. I find it exhausting to listen to a performer with constant vibrato. Some flute players use it even during semiquaver runs! Some have such a wide vibrato that most of their playing sounds completely overblown. I am also aware of double reed teachers (I have been told this by students) who teach vibrato as a way of covering tuning issues.
The best education is listening. I tell my students that I can merely teach the the mechanics of vibrato, but they need to go and learn how to use it for themselves. I can advise them where it's appropriate, but I don't advocate constant use of it. And I think those who use less often play with the most expression, because they are acutely aware of where they should be using it and have made that conscious decision.
Thanks for the thread, Chris, it is an issue close to my heart!!
Rachel
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Author: Pattyoboe
Date: 2011-03-14 16:44
Yep, I'm with you. Vibrato can be wonderful. But it can also be a dreadful thing. There are times to use it, there are times to refrain, and there are certain vibratos that just ruin everything. Truly.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-14 17:14
Baroque vibrato was more of an ornamental thing - a tremble done with the lips, but not a standard part of tone production and breath control.
Leon Goossens has a section in his book about vibrato and it's use and applications of various speeds, as well as when not to use it.
I bought the Minnesota orchestra's (under De Waart) recording of Strauss's 'Sinfonia Domestica' and the extra tracks were the Suite in Bb for winds. The flautists absolutely trashed it with their strident vibrato which was laid on with a JCB (like some prima donna soprano) - even using vibrato on staccato notes! The oboist's vibrato was wide in amplitude so when playing quietly it sounds like he was playing repeated notes.
Total contrast to that recording is the one with the Nederlands Ensemble/De Waart (which has Heinz Holliger's recording of the Strauss oboe concerto on disc 2) where the players have a more solid and tighter ensemble sound - and not all playing 'vibrato wars'.
If you're still wondering what a JCB is: http://www.jcbinnovations.com/gb/explore
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-03-14 17:24)
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2011-03-14 17:25
Chris, the Netherlands Blasers recording is wonderful, if you can, get hold of Holliger conducting the Chamber Orchestra of Europe Winds in Strauss's works for wind ensemble. Douglas Boyd who plays principal oboe has a particularly unique vibrato which creates a sort of personality trademark. You hear it and immediately you will think, that's Douglas Boyd!
Howard
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2011-03-14 22:06
Vibrato (in all its shades and intensity) should be used in the service of the musical line. It is nothing more or less than ornamentation to communicate a musical idea.
It should have the proper momentum for the lyrical passage.
I only time I don't use any vibrato is on very very pianissimo passages (in order to maintain pitch) - especially when letting go of phrase.
Mark
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Author: JRC
Date: 2011-03-14 22:59
Use of vibrato is intensely personal in my opinion. It is near impossible to generalize its use, except one rule (or two, depending on how you look at it): do it in loud passages, careful or do not use it in low volume passages. And of course everything in between. Choice of frequency and width of vibrato is entirely driven by context of the music. By adding vibrato, one can make music sound cheap or elegant, interesting or dull, amateurish or professional, tickle one's imagination or lay it on for everyone to trash it.
I know that the same simple vibrato makes some unsuspecting musical passages transform into memorable beautiful experience and some other into memorable trash. It would be best to consult your teacher, friends, and listening to yourself.
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-03-16 20:09
The same can be said of trills in baroque music. In the oboe+violin double concerto by Bach, I had been sneered at when suggesting playing the long notes "straight", no trill. Waddayanoe, nowadays some of the best period instrument players play it just that way!
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2011-03-17 20:17
Interesting articule and responses to this thread Chris.
Something I don't think came up in the discussion is how a practice routine coupling vibrato to long tones can be useful.
Adding vibrato to a crescendo after starting the tone w/o vibrato is one thing.
Another is under decrescendo also reduce the vibrato (either the amplitutide of it or speed or both).
I saw some comments about sort of a rule to not use it on soft parts. I think I tend to use it there if it matches the woodwind section, usually flutes and bassoons.
For solo lines, I use it for sure, and like to stop the vibrato if there is a decrescendo approaching a phrase ending, then add it back right at the end just a little.
It makes an interesting thing happen as the note dissolves away like a wisp of smoke in the air.
Not as easy on the low notes, say low c# and below, but it works really well up to high D, and sometimes a little higher, though not a lot of solos end up there.
Back to practice benefits. It really fine tunes the very slight changes in breath support to do this on soft notes and soft high notes especially. At the softest parts the pitch must not sag, and that is an indication of proper support.
Plus, doing this tests the reed's ability, too. And that might be the topic break for another thread or video demo.
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