 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2024-10-27 19:55
I just started playing Oboe II in a very good community orchestra. After a few rehearsals, I've noticed that the Oboe I player uses a tuning box with a wire going from the box to a sensor attached to the bell of his horn. He doesn't use it just for playing the A at the beginning of rehearsal; he uses it for the entire rehearsal.
It occurred to me that while this helps keep him in tune, it may be doing so at the expense of the intonation for the woodwind section and the orchestra in general. It seems to me that rather than watching that box all the time in order to stay in tune, he should be listening to himself to see if he is in tune with the section and the rest of the group. As it is, it seems like he's expecting everyone else to be listening to him all the time, which seems improbable and impractical.
I do think that I should be listening to him for our collective intonation, but does that necessarily mean he shouldn't be listening to those around him as well? I don't know what the answer is.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-10-27 20:52
Jaysne wrote:
> It occurred to me that while this helps keep him in tune, it
> may be doing so at the expense of the intonation for the
> woodwind section and the orchestra in general. It seems to me
> that rather than watching that box all the time in order to
> stay in tune, he should be listening to himself to see if he is
> in tune with the section and the rest of the group. As it is,
> it seems like he's expecting everyone else to be listening to
> him all the time, which seems improbable and impractical.
>
I agree with you. In the first place, if he's trying to maintain the A he started with, he's trying to fight the natural effect of instruments warming as they're played. And trying in the process to make everyone else fight the same battle. In the second place, he's causing himself a significant visual distraction by trying to stay in touch with the tuner when he needs to watch the music and keep an eye on the conductor.
Karl
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2024-10-27 22:26
Keeping the box on while performing music is wrong for all the reasons that Jaysne and kdk pointed out. But there is another reason: The box is probably set for equal temperament, that strictly mathematical construct for solving the problem of Pythogoras's comma. It will insist on having no intervals other than the octave be really "in tune" according to the simple ratios of frequencies. There are some phone apps that can be set for other temperaments, but these require you to specify the key--and if what you are playing modulates from one key to the next, it would be impractical to poke at the screen five times to reset the temperament key. Tuning devices are wonderful inventions for training the ear--I would never have become the player I am without spending hours with one WHEN PRACTICING BY MYSELF, but ultimately the ear needs to be the final arbiter.
Having said that, it could be that the oboist is doing what I used to do--have the box on just so that, if he hears that he is wildly out of tune, but is, in a panic, wondering whether he is sharp or flat, see where he is. When I did this I had a very bad ear, and frequently played out of tune. Some other players thought that the reason I was out of tune is that I was constantly watching the box, and not listening. But I was actually not watching the box--I was just playing out of tune because I had a poorly trained ear. In fact, I did not have a clip-on mic, and watching the box was useless when the whole ensemble was playing--the box was mostly responding to the louder instruments, not my oboe! Nevertheless, the people who thought the box was the problem destroyed the box while I was away from my stand. Fortunately those things are now relatively cheap to replace.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
Post Edited (2024-10-27 22:29)
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2024-10-27 22:28
Another reason to keep the box on: The conductor might decide, in the middle of rehearsal, that another tuning note needs to be played by the oboe. Instead of fumbling about to attach the mic and turn on the box, the player can just look at the box that is already on.
Just last week this happened when I had my English horn out. The conductor wanted an A so I just gave him an English horn E and hoped I wasn't too far out. It seemed many of the string players were adjusting more than usual, so I was probably not at 440!
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
Post Edited (2024-10-27 22:32)
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Author: oboist2
Date: 2024-10-27 23:12
Personally, I think using a tuning box is a double edged sword. When I was young, these things were horrendously expensive and therefore most people just carried an A tuning fork. Consequently, I do believe that we were better at listening to eachother, adapting to eachother, not just in tuning, but also phrasing etc. Another thing to consider, is that every scale has its own tuning, and there are subtle differences which are lost if one slavishly adheres to a tuning device. I know some would consider me old fashioned. I do believe that, of course, such devices are very useful, and yes I have one too, but would never think of using it during rehearsal, except for checking A when I am giving the note for tuning. Such devices are small and can live on or near your stand, or you can use an app such as "Tuneable" which are fit for purpose.
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Author: oboist2
Date: 2024-10-27 23:14
I totally agree with Karl on this one.
Geoff Pearce
Oboe and associated instruments, Sydney, Australia
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-10-28 00:16
I just use a Korg CA-1 or CA-2 tuner to give the tuning note and at 440Hz if it's with an orchestra with fixed pitch instruments (piano and tuned percussion instruments).
If it's a wind ensemble or concert band, then I tune relative to the temperature as everyone is going to be flat when cold and sharp when warm, provided there aren't any fixed pitch instruments. There's no point in aiming for an unrealistic 440Hz if the conditions dictate otherwise.
As for using a tuner throughout, then that's only going to create more problems than it's going to solve as ensemble playing is about using your ears and not relying on visual aids. And having a pick-up or transducer clipped to the bell so part of it is on the inside, that will create a constriction in the bell which can cause trouble on certain notes. If you are going to use a clip-on transducer, make sure the clip is wide enough and clip it to the top end of the top joint just below the crown if you don't want it picking up any interference from other instruments. If using the tuner without a transducer, place it on your music stand and play your tuning note with the bell directed at the tuner's inbuilt mic - the music stand will also reflect the sound backwards so the brass players sat behind you should be able to hear it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-10-28 00:34
mschmidt wrote:
> Another reason to keep the box on: The conductor might decide,
> in the middle of rehearsal, that another tuning note needs to
> be played by the oboe. Instead of fumbling about to attach the
> mic and turn on the box, the player can just look at the box
> that is already on.
>
> Just last week this happened when I had my English horn out.
> The conductor wanted an A so I just gave him an English horn E
> and hoped I wasn't too far out.
Well, a conductor shouldn't do that. If you're the principal (only?) oboe and you have an English horn in your hands, he can get someone else or he can wait for you to put down the Cor and pick up your oboe. If this was an orchestra, the concert master probably had a useable A. If a band, the first clarinet can play the tuning note (using your tuner if he doesn't have one of his own).
In any case, leaving the tuner out and on (using up battery power) so it's handy doesn't have anything to with hooking the mic up to your instrument and using it while you're playing.
Karl
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2024-10-28 05:31
Yeah, a conductor shouldn't do that and Trump shouldn't be close to winning the US election. Reality is as reality does.
Leaving the tuner out and on does have SOMETHING to do with hooking up the mic and using while your playing. It's not orthogonal. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it's not BEST PRACTICE, but you shouldn't assume you know exactly how the player is using the output from the device. Sometimes I go places and I don't connect my phone to the local wi-fi, USING UP MY PHONE BATTERY UNECESSARILY. So shoot me.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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