 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: DeletedUser
Date: 2018-05-27 10:10
Ok - so I guess you all know that I am a beginner - so I will ask beginner questions like this.
Why are there small holes on the tops of some keys. Is that so you can change / slur a tone or pitch without moving off of the key.
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Author: Hotboy
Date: 2018-05-27 23:14
The holes in some keys help with tone and pitch. Holes in some keys don't improve them, so that's why they're not there.
Dane
Bay Area, California
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Author: Scandinavian
Date: 2018-05-28 02:12
I would say the holes are there mostly for the trills. For instance, the left hand 2nd touch piece has a hole in it to facilitate the Ab-Bb trill, the 3nd for the G#-A trill. Same with the RH 3rd finger key.
But of course, intonation and sound would also be affected by them I guess.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2018-05-28 04:03
Looking at the previous two comments it's fairly obvious that those holes are a bit of a mystery. But then, the entire acoustics of the Oboe are mysterious in some ways. Consider that diamond shaped hole at the LH first finger position and the associated fine adjustments require there.
Skyfacer
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-05-28 15:00
Starting with LH1:
This is acting as an 8ve vent for middle C#, D and Eb as well as for the lower altissimo register.
LH2: This is to tune the Bb when playing an Ab/Bb trill - the G# key holds the LH2 fingerplate down and the perforation tunes that trill.
LH3: This is to tune the A when playing a G#-A trill - the upper side key holds both the G# key open and the LH3 fingerplate closed to bring the A down to pitch.
RH2: This is to help altissimo C#, D and Eb respond and tune when lowered by the low C key for these notes.
RH3: This is to tune the E when playing a D#-E trill as it will be too sharp with the Eb key open. Only works on instruments fitted with the split D#-E trill mechanism. Otherwise it's to help vent/clear the E on instruments with a perforated RH3 fingerplate.
On Bundys and other basic oboes with perforated fingerplates, they're only used for the sake of economy instead of having different fingerplates made specially for each level instrument.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2018-05-28 20:31
"RH2: This is to help altissimo C#, D and Eb respond and tune when lowered by the low C key for these notes."
On my oboe, with my reeds, covering the RH2 hole saves my altissimo C# and D from being too sharp. Especially the C#, which is the worst note on my horn. The C# doesn't respond as well with the RH2 hole closed, but it's easier to make it respond than to lip it down to pitch--because the embouchre gymnastics necessary for proper pitch on the C# aren't practicable for extended playing in other ranges. Which maybe just goes to show that having keys with holes gives the player more options for fine-tuning pitch.
I suppose, with a little practice, if I ever had to play a ppp C# entrance, I could start the note with the hole open for ease of response, and quickly slip my finger to cover the hole for pitch once I set up the proper oscillation in the air column.
I've also found that adding RH2 brings C5 up to pitch nicely, as it tends to be a bit flat on my instrument.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
Post Edited (2018-05-28 20:34)
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Author: Hotboy
Date: 2018-05-30 20:05
Mike, your problem of a sharp high C# is a common one. The likely fix is to lower your half-hole key by tightening the adjustment screw. Most instruments I have seen work best with the half-hole key just barely off the wood when LH1 is lifted. When the half-hole key is adjusted properly, then you won't need to add RH2 to lower the C#.
If your instrument does not have an adjustment screw, then a technician can add an adjustment cork so that the key doesn't lift too far. You can test how far down is best by playing the C# with the half-hole key down, then gently partially lifting LH1 until the key is barely off the wood.
I have also seen instruments without adjustment screws, on which an adjustment screw was added to the half-hole key arm that touches the wood. It takes a highly qualified tech to cut a notch and install a screw.
Dane
Bay Area, California
Post Edited (2018-05-30 20:07)
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2018-05-30 22:35
Hi Chris. Interesting comment concerning the perforated holes on the cheaper student Oboes. My plastic Bundy English Thumb Plate Oboe has these on the LH 2 and 3 and on the RH 5. They appear however to be functional as the perforation is also through the cork pads. Not just the keys.
Note that the RH 5 perforated hole is half the size of the LH ones.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2018-05-30 22:44)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-05-31 02:13
RH2 fingerplate needs to have an aperture of anything from around 0.7mm to 2mm to help the lower altissimo notes respond/tune when the low C key is being held down for them (and lowering the RH2 fingerplate down but not fully closing it).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2018-05-31 12:43
The hole size of the perforated plates on my Bundy TP are :- RH 2 (very slightly less than 2mm) LH 2 and 3 (3mm) The lower altissimo notes respond nicely. I notice that the LH 2 (finger 5) plate doesn't have much movement when the C key is lowered. That is to say, it's just about right down on the tone hole. Perhaps I should adjust it so it's slightly raised when the bottom C key is used.
I wonder if this is causing my high G natural to be such a difficult note. The F# just below it is Ok , especially when using the high F fingering plus the RH side lever.
Skyfacer
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Author: Cacisnd
Date: 2018-06-28 06:01
I am a beginner too - and I think the top diamond hole left uncovered when playing a D acts sort of like an octave vent so the note is higher. If I am wrong then sorry I am new to this.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-06-28 10:53
Cacisnd wrote:
"I am a beginner too - and I think the top diamond hole left uncovered when playing a D acts sort of like an octave vent so the note is higher. If I am wrong then sorry I am new to this."
That is exactly what the diamond aperture is doing - it's the 8ve vent for the middle C#, D and Eb when it's uncovered as the lower 8ve vent is positioned too high to work effectively for these notes. If you play upper register D using the back 8ve key, you'll notice it doesn't want to speak cleanly. Then you switch to the lower 8ve vent from upper E to G# and then the upper vent from A to C.
And because saxes are working on the same principal (they're a conical bore reed instrument just like an oboe), they can sometimes have a dodgy middle D because the lower 8ve vent is positioned too high for that note. The better location for the D 8ve vent is the high D key tonehole, so some bass saxes require the high D key to be nudged to give a clearer middle D.
8ve vents are a compromise - you're only using three on an oboe to cover an entire 8ve when in fact you really need a separate 8ve vent for each semitone, but that will make an overly complicated and most likely a very unreliable mechanism. So the placement of the 8ve vents is strategically done to cover a different section of the upper register with as few vents as is possible and each vent has its lower and upper limit.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2018-08-11 22:00
Sorry for the delay in replying, but I've been trying stuff. My adjustment screw was already all the way in. I put some masking tape on the instrument to act as a pad for where the screw touches, and this did bring down my C#; good. I just need my tech to install a longer screw or a pad under the touch.
However, lowering LH1 when open also brings down my open C#, which was wonderfully in tune. Now, many would say that I shouldn't be playing the open C#, because it has a bright and airy sound, but I actually find that sound fits in far smoother and of more consistent timbre when you are just playing a B-C#-B-C#-B figure, as in the third movement of the Poulenc Ob-Bsn-Pno trio. Sounds better than the trill fingering, too.
This oboe business is really full of compromises. Perhaps I should be flexible and continue to use whatever is appropriate to the situation. Poulenc, adjust LH1 higher, use RH1 + RH2 for C# except for the one place mentioned above, where I use the open C#. Mozart Quartet, adjust LH1 lower, so I can leave RH2 off when playing the piano C# in the second movement. I wouldn't adjust it daily in practice, but if I ever had the opportunity to perform either, would adjust in practice and rehearsal appropriately.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-08-11 22:09
What you can do if you have the LH1 fingerplate screwed down so it barely (but only just) moves is have a nylon tip fitted to the adjusting screw.
This will add more length to the adjusting screw and as it's that close to the surface of the top joint, there'll be no need for any silencing material to be stuck to the body as the nylon tip will have next to no noise with such little movement.
You can gain at least 1mm with having a nylon tip fitted - the adjusting screw will have to be drilled out by a couple of millimetres and a piece of nylon monofilament (fishing line, guitar/harp string, etc.) will be superglued in. Then the filament cut to the required length and the tip filed or sanded to form a gentle dome to make adjustments more precise. Or gently heating the end of the nylon in a flame will melt it into a dome if that's easier to do.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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