 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-13 06:42
Hi, I'm an adult who was about to buy my very first oboe, a used one, from someone I know (Yamaha 211, and for a price I could afford), only to have them inexplicably sell it to someone else for the same price, right out from under me - even though I had bought other instruments from them in the past so they knew I was serious. <sigh>. So now I am on the hunt again, with a very modest budget but serious intent - And it's hard to touch ANY functional oboe for what they sold that one for. Yeah, I am heartbroken.
So - I came across a model (for considerably more but, maybe it's worth it?) called Tempest 'Agility Wind'. It's a stretch for me but compared to other brands might be within reach financially if I really gut myself, lol. But - Is it worth it? Has anyone had any experience with it? Description say's it's full conservatory with all the bells and whistles - ?
Thank you!
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Author: Jim22
Date: 2016-12-13 07:10
I don't know anything about the tempest, but I play a Yamaha 441 and own a 211. The 211 plays well, but is missing some important keys. You realy want the Left F. Also, the alternate side g# is set up differently on the 211 and doesn't work as well as the 441. I'm sure there are other important keys that even the 441 is missing. Oboes are crazy expensive!
Jim C.
CT, USA
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-13 07:16
Yes LOL I see they are expensive, and maybe then its just as well I didn't get the Yamaha (but it was wayyyy cheap and I could have at least had something to try and see if I wanted to get deeper into things). I tried to find YouTube vids on the Tempest to hear the tone, but they'd been pulled - Odd.
Thank you for your kind reply, Jim -
Cathy
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2016-12-13 09:22
I don't recommend buying something that nobody here has heard of...and so far I don't see anyone chiming in about their experience with the Tempest. Unfortunately, oboe is one of those instruments that has to meet some pretty high standards just to be playable. I see videos online of plastic trumpets that trumpet players don't think are that bad--but you just have three valves and a tuning slide. Oboes with their narrow bore and still narrower reed openings have very little air going through them, and the smallest leak can ruin your day....
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-12-13 13:31
Stick with a recognised and well respected oboe make as they often make the full range of oboes from entry level through to top pro level models.
Never buy a Chinese oboe as not only are they poorly made, but they have a low resale value (if any) and very few repairers will be prepared to even look at them when problems surface.
Also it has to be said that Buffet student model oboes aren't made by Buffet (just like the B12/Prodige clarinets) - only the pro models are made by Buffet.
So stick with companies that are still making oboes based in England (Howarth/Albion), France (Fossati/Tiery, Loree/Cabart, Marigaux/Strasser, Rigoutat/Riec), Italy (Bulgheroni, Patricola), Japan (Yamaha) and the USA (Fox/Renard).
Bundy oboes aren't bad beginner instruments, but make sure they've been well maintained like any should you find one for a good price. The plastic ones are much better than the wooden ones as they're less likely to have warped or cracked joints.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: saraho
Date: 2016-12-13 21:14
My first oboe was John Packer 181, it has left-F and low Bb keys. I think it's good enough for first year (I got it second-hand in 2015 summer). During the first year (while using the John Packer oboe), I started my money-saving plan and so I've now got a better oboe from Howarth (S40). I'd probably sell my John Packer oboe... may take a while to find a buyer though.
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-13 22:22
Very good advice and I agree! That's why I came here.
:- )
Thanks, Mike!
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-13 22:30
Chris, thank you so much for this list, that will really help when I'm looking at options. Very likely will help prevent an expensive and heartbreaking mistake on my part.
Very much appreciate the time you took to answer me -
:- )
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-14 03:29
Bundy means Selmer, too, right? Is there a model to stay away from or one to look for particularly (since the 'student' ones I see are in my price range, which does make a difference, lol)? Thanks!
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2016-12-14 09:29
U can often get a bargain on a larilee and they are nice.
I would steer clear of the 211... U would need to upgrade it reasonably soon.
Tempest.... I looked at them online. I suspect they are cheap Chinese rubbish. Which is why I decided against it. Oboe is hard enough to play ... So u want a cooperative instrument not one u have to fight!
I personally bought a ton sparkes oboe . Mainly because I got a bargain, but also because I had some personal dealings with him as a repair man for myself and my students!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-12-14 11:39
A Fox/Renard 333 will be an excellent beginner/intermediate model plastic oboe - they're often listed on eBay or similar, but check the seller is reputable and also it's worth knowing how well maintained the oboe is.
Sometimes 'recently serviced' doesn't mean much as I've often seen allegedly 'recently serviced' instruments that were either only given a bit of a clean or poorly serviced to not having been serviced for at least a couple of years, so expect to put some money aside to have any used oboe professionally serviced by an oboe specialist.
Don't ever take an oboe to a large franchise type music shop for repair that sells mostly keyboards, guitars and sheet music and stocks some clarinet reeds and a handful of Chinese flutes, clarinets, saxes and brass instruments in a display case.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-14 15:17
Ah, thank you Sarah. The write-up for Tempest sounds so appealing, I'm glad I came here first before spending my $ on something that I'd regret.
:- )
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2016-12-14 20:03
I struggled through most of my high school years on a leaky oboe because the local repairman was untrustworthy, and my teachers didn't want me to take my oboe to him. I should have just shipped it to an expert. A little extra expense, but it means you aren't geographically limited. Right now, there's a good repairman 40 minutes south of me, a world-class expert 90-120 minutes north of me, and a UPS shipping depot 5 minutes from where I work. I go to UPS and ship my instruments to the world-class expert.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: Wes
Date: 2016-12-14 21:51
From playing for decades on good oboes, I find I use the left F and the low Bb very little and do not find them to be very essential as everybody here says. I even have a Laubin with no third octave key and have blocked off that key on my Loree, as I find it of little use. The 1 and 3 RH F is of great use, very in tune and easy, however. To each his own! If you can find a plastic RIAC made by Rigotat, it could be an excellent instrument.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2016-12-15 02:53
Hi Wesley. Yes, I agree with you concerning the LH Eb key and low Bb. And the 3rd Octave key is not essential. Just consider the great Oboists of the early 1900s such as Goossens. They played in the great symphony orchestras of the day and got by with no problems apparently although their Oboes wouid have had the low Bb of course. Just so long as there is a vent key for the fork fingering F natural.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2016-12-15 02:54)
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-15 05:50
Great advice, Wes, I'll definitely keep an eye out for one. Thanks!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-12-15 08:40
If you see any offers for oboes that may look all glossy, check here first before parting with any money as the last thing you want is to waste your money and end up stuck with an unplayable instrument.
Only recently I did some repair work for someone that had a Marigaux 901 which is his main oboe. No problems there. But out of curiosity he paid over the odds for a clear plastic oboe with gold plated keys that was listed on Alibaba. It may look nice if you like that sort of thing, but on further examination the instrument was rendered unplayable because the top joint bore was reamed out or moulded to around 2mm wider in the top joint than it should be, so the notes below E were very unstable. Even though the padding was pretty good with no leaks, the keywork had a lot to be desired where general quality and ergonomics go, so the only real use for it would be to turn it into a candlestick.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-15 18:02
I agree, Chris. Bearing in mind my tiny budget, maybe someone here has a well loved and sweet-sounding oboe they are considering 'rehoming' (as they say in the pet community lol) ?
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-17 22:19
Hi Chris, do you think a used Marigaux, playing fine for now, but with a crack in the core, would be worth picking up and eventually repairing? What kind of price should I be looking at? I have one being offered to me for a decent price I THINK but not sure if it's a risk worth taking - Also have a serial number but not sure the model#. Thanks!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-12-18 04:41
Attachment: 1972marigaux901.jpg (193k)
So long as the crack has been properly repaired and sows no signs of reopening, then it should be fine. Some even find oboes that have cracked have a more open tone and sing better as the stress in the wood has gone, but the main thing is if it has been repaired well after it cracked and is now stable.
Chances are it's a 901 which is the most popular Marigaux- my teacher has one of these from 1972 (see attachment) which she bought in the UK and then it cracked nearly all the way down both sides of the top joint when she took it back to Minnesota and played it in winter, but it's still going strong to this day. I took it off her the other year and completely overhauled it - she thought I was only changing the low C# pad, but I did the lot and only charged her for the low C# pad.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-18 19:25
Hmmm, it's still got the crack. Serial #11385, does that tell us if it's worth repair? Thanks Chris -
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-12-18 19:54
I think it'll be worth it, but do check with a woodwind or preferably an oboe specialist repairer how well the crack repair has been done and how good condition it's in.
11385 is from 1980 going by this list:
Number - Year
8500 - 1977
9500 - 1978
10100 - 1979
10900 - 1980
11700 - 1981
12500 - 1982
13200 - 1983
14200 - 1984
15200 - 1985
16100 - 1986
17000 - 1987
18000 - 1988
19000 - 1989
20000 - 1990
21000 - 1991
22000 - 1992
23000 - 1993
24200 - 1994
25200 - 1995
26100 - 1996
26900 - 1997
27700 - 1998
28400 - 1999
29100 - 2000
29930 - 2001
30450 - 2002
31120 - 2003
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-18 20:30
It still has the crack, it has not been repaired. Estimate from seller is 1K min to fix. The same as the asking price. They say for now it still plays beautifully but - A little nervous about it. I guess the oboe had better be worth more than 2K for me to consider - ? Or maybe the crack will never be a problem . .. <sigh> Maybe I should keep shopping?
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-29 22:49
Update: Well, I went ahead and did it. Despite my better judgement, somehow, I bought the used Marigaux with 'the crack to the bore' (with return op according to agreed upon terms). Took it to an oboe repair and service specialist (VERY good btw) who was UNABLE to find any actual active crack (there were some stable old repairs). It plays. It's nice. It's going back for thorough cleaning and servicing because - wow, it needed it - but for now, I actually have a very decent instrument to learn on, for a really decent price, that is playable and actually sweet sounding. (I did good, lol).
I got a good reed knife, a few canes and staple holder, a used (different brand) hard case and a carry case as part of the deal, too.
NOW all I need is - A REED! So I can actually learn to make a noise! LOL.
Recommendations for the best affordable beginner reed(s) to buy? THANKS!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-12-29 23:43
This oboe will set you up for life - you needn't look any further as there's nothing this oboe won't be able to do.
But just keep up with a good maintenance regime and regular servicing to be sure it will give you years of good service.
And keep an eye out for the crack reopening - this time of year isn't favourable for wooden bodied instruments as the humidity levels are low, so don't subject this oboe to sudden changes in temperature and humidity.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-30 00:06
Thank you Chris. I'm pretty excited, actually 'over the moon' that my gamble paid off and I absolutely want to protect my treasure for the long term.
If you know any place/any one I should look to for reeds to begin learning on, please let me know.
:- )
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-12-30 00:53
There has to be a commercial reedmaker in the US that caters for beginners through to pros - in the UK and Europe there are loads to choose from which makes things easy for us.
I can only suggest you contact an oboe specialist or see if anyone on here knows of a reliable and consistent reed maker in the US.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jim22
Date: 2016-12-31 03:19
Your best bet for reeds is a reasonably local reed maker. Try the local music stores to see if they can put you I touch with an oboist who can provide you with a couple reeds. You really would be best off with at least occasional lessons with a teacher that can keep you in good reeds. Failing that, try Marlin Lesher, Stuart Dunkel, Charles double reeds, etc. You will not succeed without a source of good reeds, and the ones the music stores sell are usually not very useful. I hope you enjoy your new oboe!
Jim C.
CT, USA
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Author: birdpond
Date: 2016-12-31 03:39
Thank you, Jim. You're right, and I've contacted a nearby instructor who makes her own reeds, and am slated to begin classes in a week or so. Very exciting!
:- )
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-01-04 14:36
congrats birdpond. Have fun.
Depending on what your musical background is.. if you a real beginner to music in general, Udemy has a decent course which includes some technique but mostly music and reading as applies to oboe. But i reckon it would make a very good start. and just google udemy discount codes before you part with any money.
All the best with your oboe journey.
:)
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-01-04 14:42
PS to Barry and Company... I LOVE my third octave key... could take or leave the left f though. historically forked fingerings were liked for the UNEVENNESS they gave the tone in music... so why not use it and get the effect of the slightly shaded tone?? lol. I am sure with a bit more experience, i might get used to the left F!
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The Clarinet Pages
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