 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-06-18 09:55
In our orchestra this season, I am playing cor anglais the whole time. All three works. This is the first time this has happened for me.
I have always played cor with a strap. I am very small, about 5'3", but with incredibly long fingers (span of a 10th on a piano). I just figured that with such long thumbs and with my size, I would need a neck strap. I still get pain from the base of my thumb into my wrist after extended periods of playing, however.
This week, I turned up to rehearsal with a chest cold (concert on weekend, so I just thought I should suck it up). Kept a scarf around my neck for warmth, which got in the way of the neck strap, so I just stopped using it.
This meant that I could change the angle of the cor to more like an oboe, which helped my sound, my musicality (more movement) and, surprisingly, my right hand. No pain at all. I've been conning myself the whole time - it was all in the angle! I could just never find the correct angle with the strap.
Now I just need to find my stash of thumb rest cushions to stop the thumb rest from digging into me so much, now that I am actually using it for its purpose.
Rachel
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Author: JRC
Date: 2014-06-18 15:15
I have the same problem. I am 5'6" and with short fingers. The problem is that my right arm is short. If the bocal was about 3" shorter, my right hand would be at a little better position. My right fingers would not cover the holes properly and my right wrist would not hurt so much. So...
I had my bocals bent in a "s" shape to have my reed position about 2-1/2" lower. My EH position is much more comfortable for my right wrist and fingers. But my EH sounds dull with the bent bocal. I have an old Howarth EH. It was a copy of Loree. Sounds the alike, looks alike. I need to find an EH that is shorter or take on a major repair.
Some people extend the right hole cover positions, to solve the problems of short right arm people. That is a major repair and cost a lot.
I hope this helps...
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-06-18 17:04
Until someone redesigns the shape of the crook and RH main action and lower joint layout on cors, then people are still going to have trouble with their right arms due to the stretch.
I agree slings/neck straps are pretty useless on straight bodied instruments such as cors, oboes, soprano saxes and clarinets (they work best on alto saxes and lower and bassoons due to the angle of the crook/reed/mouthpiece), but the best kind of support was the Quodlibet Fhred which is no longer in production, but recently RDG has started making the Bhob which is the same thing which is a telescopic support that clips onto the thumbrest ring and rests against the chair seat or on a block that fits onto a belt to allow you to play standing but still having it take the weight off the right arm.
http://www.rdgwoodwinds.com/kickstand-bhob-english-horn-short-p-12591.html
http://www.rdgwoodwinds.com/kickstand-bhob-oboe-long-p-12590.html
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2014-06-18 18:23)
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Author: oboi
Date: 2014-06-19 11:21
Has anyone had success with a bent bocal? It's always a struggle for me to play (although it is actually giving me some relief from oboe as I use a FHRED so don't stress my thumb... at least not in the same way).
I'm 5'0'' with an extremely short pinky. I span a piano octave uncomfortably. I've tried all sorts of angles with the cor, but nothing is comfortable. After years of analysis, I have concluded that yes, I need a bent bocal because in order for reed to be low enough to be at my mouth, the horn is so low that my right hand rests or almost rests on my lap, depending on the angle I fancy that day. Either way, my right wrist is horribly bent and I hate playing C#. When I hold the instrument "ergonomically", it naturally rests higher up, but of course then the reed is way too high for me to reach.
<sigh> No one makes curved cors anymore. I held an oboe da caccia once and it was exquisite.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2014-06-19 12:38
Last year when playing in a show that required very fast switches from Ob. to E.H. I invented a simple leg hook which worked like a charm. It is a bit arts-and-crafts right now.
I'm a 5'11'' guy with big hands, so this may not work for everyone. Ladies, if you like long skirts this won't work for you - sorry.
I used a wire clothes-hanger. Straighten it out, cut off the hook plus the twisted wire from one end, and create a new hook of about 1.5 inches diameter, which you should top with something that will not scratch the instrument (say, a small white cork, which will show up in a darkened pit). I covered the wire with thin irrigation tubing for comfort and aesthetics.
Bend the wire into a 10 inch loop to start with, but leave the first 8-10 inches straight, with the hook facing outwards.
The hook is positioned facing out against the inside right shin-bone at a comfortable height. The wire runs up and over the flexed knee, beneath the thigh, once around the lower leg above the calf muscle (thus stabilizing and fixing the straight length of wire) and hooks up through the crossover thus formed. Create a sharp angle in the wire at this point so that it will hook under the crossover, facing outwards, and cut off the excess. Put a cap on this end too.
The result is a lightweight hook with some flexibility that is against your lower leg. Hook the bell of the Cor and adjust your leg position for angle, height etc. It takes a little getting used to, but once you do, you appreciate the ability to modify the angle and height of the instrument during play by flexing your knee and ankle.
This is an original invention and I hereby relinquish all rights to the concept. If there are inventors or companies out there who wish to create a product from this, it is all yours - go make the English Horn world a better place.
J.
PostScript: it is important to make sure your trouser-leg doesn't interfere with that infernal open-standing forked-F vent ..
Post Edited (2014-06-19 14:16)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-06-19 12:51
Even at 5'11" myself with a fairly large hand span, I still find the awkward right arm angle and stretch when playing cor soon gets the better of me when I accidentally put fingers down in an attempt to shift the angle and weight.
Such a shame as it's my favourite instrument out of every one I play, but it has far too many imperfections and handicaps for its own good.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-06-19 13:22
Totally agree with your last sentence. I LOVE playing cor, but there is only so long I can do it for before weird angles get me down. I am going to experiment more without the neckstrap, though.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-06-19 14:41
I've recently been playing it without the sling - too much hassle to hook it up in haste in pit band playing when doubling doesn't take that into account. But I definitely feel it after several minutes of playing although not immediately, but the following day when my wrist gets a twinge when I bend it in a specific way.
I remember watching a performance of 'The Planets' shown at the BBC Proms and the bass oboist wasn't using a sling or anything else I could see she was using to support the weight of that beast - it's pretty much like playing tenor sax without a sling.
I'm definitely going to have to invest in Fhreds/Bhobs for the future as that's a relatively small price to pay for physical comfort.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2014-06-19 16:00
Here are my EH bocals, two bent, and two as is. John Peterson of RDG in Los Angeles bent them for me. It took a few tries before he suceeded. Too sharp a bent would crack open the tube.
Bent bocals dull the sound of EH. A good bocal came out sounding worse than a worst bocal I had. Now my worse bocal is the best bent bocal.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-06-19 16:05
Did you have a Howarth XL crook as well? I doubt they can be bent in a hurry!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2014-06-19 16:07
Attachment: EH Bocals-a.jpg (551k)
Attachment: EH Bocals in case-a.jpg (889k)
Here are my EH bocals, two bent, and two as is. John Peterson of RDG in Los Angeles bent them for me. It took a few tries before he suceeded. Too sharp a bent would crack open the tube.
Bent bocals dull the sound of EH. A good bocal came out sounding worse than a better bocal I had. Now my worst bocal is the best bent bocal.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2014-06-19 16:18
One of the Howarth crook was bent. It was a decent crook but after bending, it came out pretty bad. The one you thought ass no good, came out pretty good (that is the one with white tape around. It was indeed bad, I had to tape around to stop the leak. But... after bending, and even with partially collapsed tube, it sound better, yet still dull overall.
Bending this much without collapsing the tube was a real difficulty. John need to make a new jig to do this and the jig kept breaking.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2014-06-19 16:24
Cooper... Could you take a photo of Mr. Stacey's bent bocal side by side with unbent bocal and post? I would like to see how he did it.
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Author: oboi
Date: 2014-06-20 07:25
Wow, those're some bendy bocals. Now I wonder what a bassoon would sound like if its bocal wasn't bent?
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2014-06-20 13:08
I read once that you can fill the bocal with molten lead, bend it, and then drain the lead from it with heat. Obviously you would need to recork it afterwards, but it should work.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-06-20 16:33
There are straight shape bassoon crooks with a single curve in them instead of the usual S bend. Incidentally, what do Russians call an S bend (Roman S) as they Cyrillic S look like a Roman C?
Cerrobend is the low melting point alloy used to support the tubing while crooks are being bent to shape nowadays - it's at a molten state in boiling water and solid at room temperature so can be safely used for this application. Get a pan of water on the boil, immerse the crooks to heat them up and have a lade of cerrobend in the pan as well. Then fill the crooks with the cerrobend out of the pan (with the ends stopped against a mat) and leave to cool. Then bend them to the required shape, immerse in boiling water and the cerrobend will melt and run out leaving the inside of the crook clean.
When using lead the tubing has to be oiled first so the molten lead doesn't stick to the inside, then the tubing has to be heated up sufficently while pouring the molten lead in to ensure there aren't any air bubbles which will cause a kink when bending, plus ensuring all traces of lead are removed afterwards. Too dangerous due to the molten lead aspect, so best use a safer, less toxic and much lower melting point alloy.
Either way, the crook cork will most likely need to be replaced if it burns or the adhesive fails. Crooks are usually bent before plating, so you may find the plating will crack or craze if you bend them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2014-06-21 17:10
I had a custom bocal made by Dallas with more of a bend in it. It cost the same as a regular bocal, played very well (my teacher was impressed) and helped the right arm problem a lot. It was sold on ebay a couple years ago when I sold everything due to health problems. I also made a device that sat on the floor in front of me that had a padded hook on it, that I could rest the bell on to take the weight (the end of the hook was inside the bell.) The combination made the cor much more comfortable to play, but the hook did limit movement.
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Author: huboboe
Date: 2014-06-24 03:07
Check out the W.R.I.S.T. support. I visited Grover Schiltz a few years back and he demonstrated it. The adjustable spring lets you set the rigidity and it works wonderfully well!
http://www.chicagoreedcompany.com/wrist.html
jhoyla: Molten lead hard to work with. Use Wood's metal or other low temperature alloys that met at the temperature of boiling water. Try Edmund Scientific as a source...
Robert Hubbard
WestwindDoubleReed.com
1-888-579-6020
bob@westwinddoublereed.com
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2014-06-24 14:01
Thanks, @Bob,
Chris also pointed this out to me (he suggested Cerrobend).
I have never tried molten lead myself, and so have lived to give bad advice to others :-(.
J.
P.S., regarding the W.R.I.S.T., I was inspired by that idea when I made my leg-hook. Which I still recommend, BTW!
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2014-06-25 04:57
Sorry if someone already mentioned this, but playing while seated, I cross my legs at the ankles and place the bell of the cor at the intersection of my ankles.
I've been doing this successfully for 25+ years. It works really well.
I hate using a neck strap but do when practicing standing in my studio.
And I'd use it if performing solo ehorn standing with an orch.
-Craig
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-06-25 12:55
Well, I did a rehearsal followed by a full concert without the neck strap, less pain in the wrist but I have a semi-permanent dent in my thumb! Off to find a thumb rest cushion with better coverage and thickness, methinks!
I have found that playing at more of an 'oboe' angle also enables me to adjust my wrist position until it is 'correct', which I don't seem to be able to do as easily in the position I hold with a neck strap.
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