 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: ptarmiganfeather
Date: 2012-07-10 23:34
Attachment: IMG_2711.JPG (518k)
Attachment: IMG_4401.JPG (1944k)
I learned to tie and scrape reeds from a combination of the internet and the Jay Light reed book.
So here is a picture of some blanks as well as two finished reeds that play in tune and sound decent. I am still learning. These are a miscellaneous bunch of staples and cane. I prefer K. Ge 10-10.5 mm narrow shape cane.
My teacher plays on hand made reeds that are shockingly different than the ones I make for myself.
I thought it would be nice for those distance learners like me to have another resource for reed pictures. So if you have some pictures, please post them. It is nice to see what other people are doing.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2012-07-11 02:22
Not bad pic 2711
Try taking some pics with a back light. In that way it will provide more information for us to comment on the reeds.
In the second pic 4401 the tip blend appears to horizontal - that is - a straight line across the reed. You should try for a inverted triangle or semi-circle. The cane also looks soft and fibrous. Although it is difficult to tell from the picture.
How does the reed play and respond?
Mark
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-07-11 02:35
Ditto on the need for better lighting. May I respectfully comment that one should not have extra wrapping cord going off in all directions? One can accidentally flip a reed onto the floor with those cords sticking out, even though they look great.
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Author: ptarmiganfeather
Date: 2012-07-11 07:23
Mjfoboe - You are right. The blend could be more of a v-shape. I had trouble with making the tip too short at first and it shows. Backlit pictures were not coming out well. The reeds respond easily, play somewhat in tune. However, my ears are beginner ears so this may not be the case if it were heard by others. Fibrous cane? Not sure, but both scraped fine, not powdery nor too hairy.
Wes - Oh yes the reed thread. I am scared to trim the thread too far. My tying-off skills are a bit over the top. I am still learning. Hopefully the thread ends will be something I refine later.
The funny part is, after learning reed making over the winter I finally started live lessons a couple months ago.
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2012-07-12 01:50
I was just about to say that your pictures are amazing!
Lighting is very hard, and I have found, over the years, that backlighting is good for a quick intuitive impression, but there is no real precision to be gained with it.... it is a tool, not a metric.
I guess you used a really decent camera with good strong daylight: lighting is the most difficult thing of all in technical photography. Your pictures show very, very clearly how the grains are being cut and how the layering is happening. I find this more revealing than backlighting, the latter having left me surprized many times. But this kind of picture is really hard to get every time. In case you might be interested, here are some similar pictures of my reeds.... always experimental!
http://robindeshautbois.blogspot.ch/2011/09/rare-wired-reeds.html
(click on the picture to get a full-sized image)
For example, of how good this kind of picture is, I can see that you do not "plane" the cane, but rather sweep with the knife: this way, your windows do not result in a "catch" behind the hump (to use Jay Light's terminology), but rather your windows sink like water in a sand trap.
I won't comment on your scraping style because:
1. After having spent years making them in a smilar way, then learning other styles, I decided long-windows scrape just isn't suited to me.
2. Experience on the BBoard and meeting others showed me unequivocally that any given scraping style is suited to some and not others and this means there is a place for all of them.
=> conclusion: you say they play in tune, add full dynamic range and articulation ability and you're batting a thousand!
I actually do, sometimes, scrape off all the bark, all the way to the thread: only difference: it is essentially still short-scrape, but with the cane thinned on the outside when the reed is just too hard.
Keep it up and keep us abreast of your progress!
Good stuff!
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
Post Edited (2012-07-12 01:55)
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Author: ptarmiganfeather
Date: 2012-07-12 05:06
Hi Robin. Thanks for the compliment. These are taken with a pocket camera, using the digital macro feature. We had a nice cloudy day yesterday, that was the lighting. I couldn't find a just right source for back light.
I tried making a catch with my first few reeds. I would have a hard time with the catch getting lumpy and uneven. I decided to do a general profile and dig out the windows afterwards. As I am still learning I may go with the catch again. Since then I have learned to sharpen my knife. That would probably help some too.
I have read your blog, with the outstanding reed pictures included. Some of your photos are really remarkable.
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2012-07-12 10:38
Thank you too!
My wife did those pictures to put her photography training to the test.
You can find her on Facebook (JiJiPhotography) or at JiJiPhotography.ca
=> she just explained to me that cloudy days (esp. outside) are the ideal lighting condition for detailed photography. Sunny days and bright/directed artificial create harsh shadow conditions.
=> the course I took on computer-vision explained that pocket cameras would provide clear pictures with certainty.
A couple of months ago, I was informed that "American Scrape" is not a clean-cut concept (many oboists will do it differently) so the "catch" is not necessarily necessary. Same goes for what I call Euro-scrape: "German" or "French" can mean a lot of things and sometimes the line between them can be blurry. (I never saw/read any formal descriptions of English scrape.)
As for sharpening, if you have a system that works - one where the knife helps you do what you want rather than making you fight it - then stick with it. Otherwise, my blog also has info and demos on what works for me (and practically all of the world's wood-working community for the past couple of millennia).
A free downloadable book in there explains why this is.... and also, indirectly, by extension, why some reed-makers are dead-opposed to these methods.
http://robindeshautbois.blogspot.ca/search?q=sharpening
So good show to you again and do keep us informed of your progress. I really like you as an example that the oboe can't be so impossible to play. You're the one who was absent from music for 20 years, right/wrong? So if you're doing OK, that means the enjoyment of the instrument is in the reach of MANY people!
=> keep us abreast!
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: ptarmiganfeather
Date: 2012-07-12 18:31
I did have a long break - 14 years. Long enough to forget all of my old bad habits and re learn new ones! Haha.
This has been so much fun only because I have been playing for personal enrichment, not for a crowd. What sounds really great to my ears might be chalkboard scratchings to the uninitiated.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2012-07-12 20:05
I took a 25 year break ... and it also cleared up all my bad habits from a very very bad teacher!
Now I play very well - thank you.
Mark
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2012-07-13 01:14
Mark, when did you re-start?
I remember getting really good, sound and intelligent comments on loads of topics from you here for at least 2 years (I don't think I've been here longer than that).
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
Post Edited (2012-07-13 01:16)
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2012-07-13 01:21
I began to play again at the age of 43. I have played now for 20 years.
I started to really study seriously 5 years ago.
Mark
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Author: Loree BF51
Date: 2012-07-14 17:49
Hello again,
The two in the second pix look quite decent. Would you be kind enough to tell me how you got your .jpg files to show up as attachments to this posting, so that I can do the same for the article I said I would post for you on my home-made oboe cane easel, sometime back. I tried doing it before, but it didn't work and what PDF program, if any, did you use? Regards, Loree BG51
R. Still former student
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Author: huboboe
Date: 2012-07-14 20:49
Very pretty knifework! You have clearly learned to sharpen your knife, and you are obviously scraping where you intend to scrape. Those are probably the hardest things to achieve; now you can play with the architecture until you find what works best for you.
The blend in both reeds in pic 4401 is nicely sloped. I would suggest you will get a more responsive and freer blowing reed if, at the point where the blend meets the edge of the reed, you take a tiny bit out of the corners, thereby defining more of a crescent rather than a square across profile. The extreme of that would be a v-shaped blend, but where you end up in that spectrum depends on too many other things to make a firm rule, and I'm speaking just from observation since I don't have the reed to play on...
I think you should also leave the corners of the tip alone unless the reed is well balanced but too bright and you don't want to clip the tip across. Thin corners promote agile response.
On light, both when scraping and when taking pics: Think for a minute about early morning and late afternoon sunlight on a landscape. The strong, raking light brings out surface texture and detail that the direct sun at noon obliterates.
A small, high intensity halogen desk lamp is ideal for reed making. If you hold your reed with the tip pointed to the light, the raking light will bring out certain details. Hold it with the staple pointed toward the light and you will see a whole different set of details. And hold it cross-ways and see how the spine jumps into relief. The flatter you get the light across the surface, the better this works.
Use this technique to see where the unintended lumps, bumps and nicks are.
It's also important to change as few things at a time as possible. Staples, for instance. In pic 2711 you have 2 Chudnow staples and 2 others. The Chudnow staples are more rounded and have a larger opening on top. When you have finished all four reeds, are the differences because of the way the reed is cut or because of the staple?
I tell my students to eliminate as many variables as possible. Find a cane source you like the feel of and get as much of the same cane, shaped on the same shaper as you can afford. Find a dozen staples that fit your mandrel perfectly (or at least all the same way) and use only those. That way the differences between reeds will most likely be a result of your architecture, rather than differences between materials.
You've got a great start. Keep chopping!
A reed a day keeps the... Oh, wait! That's an apple a day...
Robert Hubbard
WestwindDoubleReed.com
1-888-579-6020
bob@westwinddoublereed.com
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Author: ptarmiganfeather
Date: 2012-07-15 00:13
Loree bf51 - Smaller picture size is important I think. I just copied the pics to my desktop and posted them from there. They were .jpg format, 520 kb size. Hope that helps.
Robert - Yes I will try scraping more at the edge of the blend. Thank you for the compliment.
As for variables - I made a pretty decent reed from a salvaged Jones brand staple twice in a row with the same cane (the first one cracked on me) I traded for a few more Jones staples and fitted them to my mandrel with jewelry pliers. They fit perfect. Now to figure out what to do with those other staples I've collected.
Thank you for the comments. They are very helpful.
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Author: oboe1
Date: 2012-10-12 19:43
Take a look at this great book. It contains many many pictures of reeds taken with a back light.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2012-10-13 15:19
Well done! I learned to tie with my oboe professor, but as I am in the US, I had to feel my own way around the short scrape. I now play exclusively on my own reeds, which I am both amazed and a little proud of. It is a good feeling, isn't it?
I too prefer K.Ge, but obviously use a wider shape for short scrape. I recognise your thread - I have the same spool! If you are scared of the ties slipping, I a) run beeswax through the thread before tying and b) put a dot of clear nail polish on the tie if I still feel it is going to slip. You can then cut it as flush as you want.
Oboe1, do you mean the Ledet Oboe Reed Styles book? I am fascinated by it! I cannot believe that so many variations in reedmaking can produce 'similar' (i.e. getting a 'good' sound and response from the oboe) results.
Happy reedmaking!
Rachel
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-10-13 18:16
Your pics look good. Jay Light's book has helped me some too, but I find myself reverting to older (working) habits in finishing a reed.
I would agree with trimming the thread shorter. (I usually tie 2 knots then 'lock' them with Duco cement.
I recently tried making a 'French scrape' reed and am surprised at how little different it sounds from my usual American long scrape.
But then again, I was taught to 'cut it so it plays' so the basic principles are the same; in the end, it's the ratios that make for the vibrations; wherever the thicknesses and thin-nesses happen in a reed, as long as the overall outcome is a vibrating, stable, in-tune reed, then no style is technically 'wrong'.
GoodWinds
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Author: ptarmiganfeather
Date: 2012-10-14 23:47
Thanks. I did start trimming the thread after one or two ties. Also now using a dab of pink nail polish to hold them. It works great.
The spool of thread I have is probably large enough to share. It was only like 3 bucks too.
The ledet reed book does look interesting. Thanks for the suggestion.
Post Edited (2012-10-15 01:58)
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The Clarinet Pages
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