 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-03-23 02:40
Hello Everyone,
I'm looking to purchase a used oboe, probably loree, although I will peruse the Howarth and maybe even Laubin aisles as well. Anyhow, I have an interest in B/C series oboes as well as contempory c+3 and AK models. To get to the point, can anyone tell me what loree series the 3rd octave key was introduced? All the B and C series oboes I've seen do not have this feature. Thanks.
Drew
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-03-23 03:54
Not sure when it was added to Lorees, but you can always have one fitted at any point in time.
As far as the history of the 3rd 8ve key goes, I can only assume it was first to appear on Zuleger Wiener oboes well before being fitted to French instruments.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-03-23 07:14
My 1984 Loree does not have a third octave key (GKxx serial) and my QOxx 2005 Loree does have a third octave key. My 1994 Laubin does not have a third octave key. The third octave key gets in the way of my monster thumb so I adjust it to not open at all, because I hit it when I should not, and I didn't need it anyhow.
Paul Laubin has said that his oboes did not need third octave keys.
Good luck!
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2012-03-23 10:48
My 1985 Lorée (HN21) standard does have a 3rd octave key. They had already been options for years by the time I bought mine.
I have a Phillips record of Heinz Holliger dating from a few years before that which shows him playing an instrument (Rigoutat, I think) with a 3rd octave key.
I get wind of more and more players, including Lorée players, who don't think the 3rd is necessary.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: wrowand
Date: 2012-03-23 12:57
This is from Nora Post's website in a 1982 interview with Nigel Clark of Howarth:
"
NP: How about third octave keys on thumbplate systems?
NC: They don't go together particularly well. Very few people have both; most use semi-automatic octaves here. When we make instruments for export we normally have a third octave--except to America, where third octave isn't standard yet. Of course, Lorée hasn't been a great exponent of third octave, where Marigaux has been; Marigaux invented the third octave.
"
I think 30 years after this interview, the 3rd octave key is pretty standard on oboes purchased in the US but I've really never needed it. Most of the oboes I've used over the past 30 years have had 3rd octave keys but my current oboe (Laubin) does not; my back-up oboe does (Howarth XL).
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2012-03-23 15:38
Regarding positioning of the 3rd octave touch for thumbplate oboes:
The touch is positioned to the left of the thumbplate/1st octave touches, such that you can depress it together with the thumbplate by "flattening" your thumb. I have mine set well to the left and I rarely use it - from my experience it is not necessary up to about F#. You only really need a 3rd octave from G on up. My 5 year old Q series Loree has 3rd octave, my 1985 Marigaux/Strasser does not.
Wes, until I adjusted my thumbplate touch further to the left I had the same issue as you, and used the same solution. Now, it seems to be positioned correctly and I never hit it by accident. It is (I think) simple to get a new touch installed so that it is positioned to the left, should you need it.
J.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-03-23 16:16
Here's what the 3rd 8ve looks like on most thumbplate and dual systems:
http://www.howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pic=./wo/HowarthXLBWTPOboe.jpg&pid=35115
It is possible to have the 3rd 8ve touchpiece set off to the right of the thumbplate, but that takes more doing as it has to either run underneath or loop over the 1st 8ve touchpiece arm.
But the thing is to be sure the 3rd 8ve touchpiece isn't standing too high above the joint surface otherwise you can catch it easily when you don't want to. To avoid this, it's best to have a fairly thick cork glued under the thumbplate and 1st 8ve touches to raise them off the deck and bend the 3rd 8ve in such a way so the underside of the touchpiece is almost touching the joint surface.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JMarzluf
Date: 2012-03-23 16:35
Drew,
I just want to know what store you shop at, that has Howarth and Laubin "aisles." I didn't notice these aisles at Whole Foods, last time I was there. I must be shopping at the wrong market altogether.
Jonathan
http://www.marzlufreeds.com/
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-03-23 17:22
To Chris, Wes, Robin, wrowand: Thanks for the help. It doesn't seem that it's a major factor, so I guess that just solidifies that a B series might be a good start for me. Currently I'm just renting a Renard 333 from Forrests.
To Jonathan: Wouldn't it be nice if they did though. Actually, Best Buy now sells musical equipment, which I find very scary. Soon there will just be one store to rule them all. I think we call that now Walmart.
In all seriousness though, I peruse RDGwoodwinds, OboesChicago, Charles Music, Carlos Oboes, Mcfarland Double Reed, Peter Hurd's oboe.us, and Webreeds religiously. Some have more turnover than others. I'm really interested in the plastic Lorees that Peter raves about pre H series.
And now my public service announcement: If anyone knows of someone selling one of those plastic Lorees, I'm highly interested, and I can pay the fair market value.
Thanks again all.
Drew
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2012-03-23 18:50
My Buffet oboe from 1963 has a 3rd octave key, but it wasn't standard back then. My Buffet English horn made in the same month in 1963 doesn't have a 3rd octave key.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2012-03-24 06:38
I have had some C series Loree oboes with factory equipped 3rd octave key.
I have an exquisite Triebert oboe from the 1920s with 3rd octave key, left F,
left C#, F resonance, articulated low C#, Bleuzet system D#-E trill, Ab-Bb trill-
the "Buck Rogers" model.
Tom Hiniker says (and I concur): "A well crafted oboe should have no need of a 3rd octave key."
Oboes.us
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Author: Loree BF51
Date: 2012-03-24 15:20
If only you had added the words "...and why..." after the word "When..."in your title! ! can only assume that it was meant to be used for the third register e-natural and upward to make them easier to play, but is that correct? Neither of the two Loree's I had (BB19 or 20 and BF 51 1960, 63), had it. If I remember right, the Loree that Robert Mayer (CSO O/E.H.) had from 1930 to at least '58 or thereabouts did have it, so it must have been added. The AK and the AU that Mr. Still used in the '60's did not have it, as best as I can remember.
R. Still former student
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-03-24 20:36
Some of those plastic Lorees sound so good that a friend of mine who had an older plastic Loree was given a brand new rosewood Loree in exchange for it. The plastic Loree was originally owned by the late Bill Criss, a prominent studio player.
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-03-25 03:59
Yea, I'm a pit musician, and the plastic lorees sound almost too good to be true. I've heard people say it doesn't matter what material is used, but the sound column shape is the greatest factor in tone production. I don't really care, if it sounds good and won't crack when played cold, that's the axe for me.
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Author: oboeandy
Date: 2012-03-25 18:12
Does anyone have an idea how many plastic or half-plastic oboes Loree makes annually? Are they made only by special order?
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Author: landeroboe
Date: 2012-11-21 04:49
I bought a plastic FV series Loree in 2007(?) off ebay, because I had heard how rare they were. It was in good enough shape to use out of the box, however after I sent it to Jason Onks at Onks Woodwind it sang like it never had since it had been in my ownership.
I recently began looking for a wooden oboe for graduate school. Peter Hurd sent me three oboes; a JG Loree, a CO Loree, and a Laubin. After playing all the oboes, my plastic Loree included, my teacher placed the plastic Loree slighlty below the JG Loree and above the CO Loree. We both agreed on the assessments of the oboes.
Point of the post? Plastic Lorees are great! Mine was a great investment.
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Author: Loree BF51
Date: 2012-11-24 15:37
To "landeroboe",
What was your (plural) assessment of the Laubin oboe and how old was it or what series or # Regards.
R. Still former student
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Author: landeroboe
Date: 2012-11-29 01:56
First let me say that the oboe was very good; just not as good as the other two that were sent. It was a late 900 serial number. My opinion is the oboe did not "wow" becasue of the amazing reputation that Laubin enjoys. There was one voicing issue that Peter said he was going to have worked on by David Teitelbaum at Laubin. I just had a great group of oboes to chose from!
Many thanks to Peter!
Matt
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-11-29 06:47
My teacher, a student of Tabuteau, had the third octave key REMOVED from his Laubin. That's how 'necessary' he felt it was.
GoodWinds
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2012-11-29 16:39
Hello GoodWinds,
Do you know if your teacher had the 3rd octave hole plugged? If not, there would have been no point having the 3rd octave key removed.
Sincerely,
Wai Kit Leung
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-11-29 18:13
Of course he did.
He did not like the 'distraction' of having an additional key back there, and he was a professional for decades, did not feel the need for a high-note 'booster'.
GoodWinds
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2022-03-13 01:35
My teacher, who played Rigoutats, somehow disabled the 3rd octave key. I"m not way up in the stratosphere yet in regular playing, but I was able to hit the super high G on my oboe that he had locked the 3rd octave on. So I don't know what it's "for" either. I think 3rd octave is more throat shape than anything, based on my limited experience.
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