 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: claire70
Date: 2011-04-05 20:07
I'm a fairly newbie reed maker (made maybe 30-40 now), and want to know whether I'm doing something wrong when I'm making a reed, or if this happens to everyone. Namely: I scrape the tip first, but as I do so I end up with a kind of 'line' / wall where the tip meets the unscraped bit, where I'm initially putting my knife down to scrape the tip. Hard to describe so I'm hoping someone will know what I mean! (It's too subtle too come out well on a photo although I'll keep working on that...)
As I continue to work on the main part of the reed, this funny line gets scraped away again, but I'm wondering if it should be there in the first place, or what is causing it? I'm trying to copy Ke Xun Ge's reeds, and he has a clear and definite demarcation between tip and not-tip that I want to emulate. But I can't figure out how he does it so beautifully.
Does this ring ANY bells with anyone???!!
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2011-04-05 21:04
If you are doing a long scrape style you might try this:
After you tie the blank, scrape a light back all the way to the tip. Don't go very deep and certainly not too deep in the heart area. Keep it very smooth and avoid nicks.
It might help to count your knife strokes, then repeat on each channel of both blades. Using the same number of strokes will help with balance later.
Ensure the cane bark remains on the rails from back through heart and the center spine stays prominent, although do remove the bark from it gradually as each channel forms. Don't scrape directly on the spine. It'll come off naturally.
Then, scrape tip end of blank fairly thin (this is well beyond where the finished reed will reside. Do this and clip the tip open.
Insert a plaque and rough in the tip area using only diagonal knife strokes towards the corners and complete each stroke beyond the cane's end.
You will start to see a tip and plateau (heart and the transition between them, and you will not have to fight the bark of the cane any more.
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Author: claire70
Date: 2011-04-05 21:06
Well, it's visible without backlighting, just to the normal eye, but it doesn't really look like a *dig* downwards either. (I do those too!) It's just quite a sharp definition between tip and not-tip. To use a gardening analogy: if I was digging a flower bed and was putting the spade in the ground each time next to where it went in last time, to make a clean edge between the top layer of the bed and the lower level, so that there was a clear drop in the soil level between the two layers - that's what it kind of looks like.
Downloaded the knife-sharpening guide earlier this evening, thanks! :-)
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-04-05 21:09
Oh, you mean kind of a "rebound"... I think a sharper knife, gentler stroke and lots of practice (sigh!) will do the trick... yeah, I still get those, and that's how I avoid them.
I don't do American scrape, but my Euro is often long. Oboe Craig's advice is right on the money.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: claire70
Date: 2011-04-05 21:14
Yep, rebound sounds plausible. Okay, I will try the sharper knife, gentler strokes and more practice! (I could tell myself that I think it is less bad than it used to be... But I could be kidding myself...)
I'm doing a fairly short German-ish scrape too. Will Craig's tips still work for that?
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2011-04-05 21:55
I'm thinking that you are referring to that tricky part of the reed we call the 'blend', between heart and tip. It's a very personalized matter, and you will likely have to find your own 'slope'. I don't do well at all playing on reeds with a sharp 'slope', or a 'step', a sudden change of density between heart and tip; other players prefer this.
I know other reed makers who practically blend the lay (back, windows) right through the heart into the tip and have fabulous sound.
For me, somewhere between the two extremes works. On back-lighting, I have a pretty sharp definition showing between heart and tip on my reeds; however, if I look at the PROFILE I want to see a roundish slope between the two parts of the reed. Not a sudden step, and not a pure inclined plane. THIS is the part of the reed that can show such dramatic change, if you adjust it tiny bit by tiny bit. If it is too sharp a 'slope', I get a squeak/buzz; if too gentle, then the dynamics and stability suffer.
How do you DO this? Well, a sharp knife helps. So does Craig's suggestions, of doing a light scrape (rid the bark, except spine and rails) all the way through, then setting out to define each area.
Using a diagonal scrape (center of reed outward) helps too.
I'm sure with time you'll find the JUST RIGHT that works for you.
mary
GoodWinds
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Author: huboboe
Date: 2011-04-05 23:58
I teach my students to define the rearmost part of the tip, the place where the half-moon 'blend' meets the edge of the reed, with a line in the bark straight across the reed (at 66mm on my scrape, for a 70mm reed and 4mm tip).
I then have them define the blend and refine the tip forward of this line. When the back is scraped, the line disappears, as you have described, but while it is there it defines an important place on the reed architecture.
In my studio you would get a round of applause.
As previous posts have pointed out, the slope of the blend is very important, but it is also very much a function of the resilience of the cane.
The 'blend' is the part of the reed that couples the vibrations from the freely vibrating tip to the thicker back, which can't vibrate without help.
As a general principal, the steeper the slope the more the tip is detached from the back and the more 'tippy' or buzzy the reed sounds.
The shallower the slope, the more the back 'steps on' the tip, eventually preventing the tip from vibrating freely or at all.
The trick is finding, for each piece of cane, the balance between tip and back that gives the sound you desire.
I made a reed once in 1972 that I liked very much ;-)
Robert Hubbard
WestwindDoubleReed.com
1-888-579-6020
bob@westwinddoublereed.com
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2011-04-06 00:04
You made a reed once in 1972...! Yeah, I remember those. I have one in my box now, but I don't know how much longer it will last :(
All those factors, eh? Cane type, scrape, density, shape, tie, staple, OBOE, PLAYER... no wonder they call us crazy.
GoodWinds
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2011-04-06 08:19
Here are some practical tips regarding knife technique.
1. Sharpen your knife
2. Check it is sharp, and if not, go back to 1.
3. Repeat stages 1 and 2 several times for every reed (yes!!!!)
4. Long strokes
I use the terms "reed thumb" (usually left thumb) and "knife hand", usually your right.
These are accomplished by maintaining a fixed angle of attack with your knife hand, and pushing the blade forward (NOT downward!) with your reed thumb. It should be possible to do Craig's scrape from the back to the tip in one stroke, using this method.
5. Short strokes
These are useful for "dusting" (very light strokes that remove almost no cane), and for fine detail such as the "blend" area. For these strokes, position the blade carefully using the tip of your reed thumb against the back side of the knife, hold the reed thumb still and rotate the wrist of your knife hand. Strokes like this should be very light and should never be more than 1-2 mm in length, since the angle of attack changes and you could dig into the cane (could this be your problem?)
6. Scraping the blend
[An aircraft can rotate in three different dimensions. "Pitch" is angling the aircraft nose up or down. "Roll" rotates the aircraft about the axis from tail to nose, and "Yaw" rotates the aircraft left or right about the vertical axis without change in the horizontal plane.]
The important detail here is to angle the reed in all three dimensions, so that you are doing short strokes in the right direction. You cannot scrape a smooth downward slope on the blend by scraping horizontally - you have to pitch up, yaw to the correct angle of your "V" shape and roll slightly so that you are scraping in the correct direction. Much of this is achieved with the hand holding the reed. Your strokes should be so short here that they begin and end in the blend area.
7. Plaques
I use two plaques - a steel, flat plaque for scraping the tip and the extreme edges, and a contoured (bellied) black plastic plaque for scraping the blend, heart and back. I try never to scrape the edges and tip on the contoured plaque, because it digs channels.
8. Removing nicks
You can't remove nicks by attacking them head on. You have to work gently at a yaw angle of at least 20-25 degrees to smooth them out.
9. Balance
What is a balanced reed? It is a reed where all four quadrants match each other, directing the vibrations down the centre line. This does not happen overnight - it takes LOTS of practice.
Hope this helps,
J.
Post Edited (2011-04-06 08:30)
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Author: Alphons
Date: 2011-04-06 09:14
You are about 1000 reeds short before developing full reed making skils.
So no panic and just keep improving your skils.
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-04-06 10:11
JHoyla got it right, especially the part about nicks.
A more expensive knife with harder metals keeps its cutting egde and is much less frustrating: that's why I'll gladly pay $130 for a Graf rather than $30 for a Vitry.
---- near-dry scraping ---
What I should add is that the reed tip, including your rebound-line, is much easier to scrape near-dry. What I mean by that is don't scrape it right out of the soaking dish or right out of your mouth. Do wet the reed and play on it, but let it dry about 30 seconds before scraping the tip. This requires a lighter knife stroke, but it really helps and provides more control, especially with the nicks.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: Theyoungoboist
Date: 2011-04-07 13:57
Robin,
Do you have any diagrams/drawings on your reeds/type of scrape? I'm very interested in different types of scrapes and how they effect the reed.
-TYO
http://oboeadventures.tumblr.com/
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-04-07 14:32
I do and I'm relieved almost every time I make a reed at how easy that was. Seeing as you are starting, however, I hesitate to suggest my methods because:
1.
My diagrams are rough, multiple and possibly confusing! That is, you might need only half of them to start off with and the text with them assumes you've been doing similar for some time.
2.
you'll be studying under some instructor: you really need to follow that person's methods whether you or I agree with them or not... it's just a matter of practicality: if that person does things differently, s/he won't be able to help with my technique and I won't be able to help with her/his.
3.
there are other assumptions about playing style and physiognomy which might lead to towards or away from my method.... you can only decide this over several years.
YES, I get bad reeds too: because cane quality and many other discussions on this forum still apply! But generally, I don't find the process frustrating, in fact I now enjoy making reeds.
I intend to clean that up on my blog eventually, but it will take time.
for now:
http://robin-hautbois.users.sourceforge.net/anches/index.html
You might want to look at other resources listed on my blog first:
http://robindeshautbois.blogspot.com/p/great-places.html
Best of luck!
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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