 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-11 17:49
I have a fine performance of the Schubert Octet recorded in 1992 by the Consort of London, Robert Haydon Clark, director, Collins Classics CC-1375-2.
The players are not listed. Does anyone know who they were?
Thanks.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-08-11 19:33
Ken,
I have a feeling that that recording is on period instruments, does it sound like it?
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-19 12:14
Peter -
It's on modern instruments. I think it may be older than 1992, though. The clarinetist has the characteristic English sound, with no vibrato. The bassoonist is definitely playing a French basson, which I've read went out well before 1992. The violinist has a habit of starting a note straight and then adding vibrato.
Both the violinist and the clarinetist are considerable players. The Octet lies well for the instruments but has some unexpectedly tricky spots, and both players toss them off as if they were nothing. The clarinetist transposes the C clarinet parts on Bb.
It's played as chamber music, unlike most recordings which treat it as orchestral.
Ideas?
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Maruja
Date: 2013-08-19 12:28
As a not very experienced intermediate (and English!) player, can you clarify what you mean by an English sound/style? This has come up a couple of times in recent postings.
And to go on from there - French/German sounds?
And if there is a particular sound we like, how do we emulate it? or is it a question of the particular instruments which are played in certain countries?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-19 14:30
Maruja -
My idea of the English sound is produced by large-bore B&H clarinets (or present-day Eatons). It has a velvety, "floating" quality. Listen to Reginald Kell, Jack Brymer, Emma Johnson and the early Gervase de Peyer.
To American and French ears, it lacks the high-frequency buzz we call "center," which is characteristic of American and French players.
My idea of the German sound is that produced by players of Oehler-system clarinets. It's very smooth and consistent. Listen to Karl Leister and Michele Zukovsky, and old NY Philharmonic recordings with Simeon Bellison. When I play Modern Wurlitzer (Oehler-design) clarinets, they have a "blow in here and it comes out there" quality, very good but not flexible. (Larry Combs told me the same thing). However, Sabine Meyer has infinite variety.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-08-20 21:34
First violin David Juritz
'Cello Andrea Hess
Clarinet Richard Hosford
Bassoon Kim Walker (on fagott -- 'definitely a basson' is another Shaw thing)
Horn Tim Jones
...the others I couldn't find out.
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clancy
Date: 2013-08-20 22:26
I believe Richard was playing pre war 1010s during that period.
Post Edited (2013-08-20 22:28)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-21 02:47
Thanks Tony. Richard [corrected] Hosford is a wonderful player with that I think of as the ideal English tone.
In France, the bass double reed instrument is called a basson. If you've seen a French document calling the instrument a fagott (a German word), please let me know. Google Translate gives it as basson.
The tone of the French (Buffet) basson and the German (Heckel) bassoon are very different. I'm sure you're familiar with the great French basson player Maurice Allard, who sounded like no Heckel player who ever lived.
The Consort of London player's sound was unmistakably made on the French basson. Baines (Woodwind Instruments and Their History) wrote that there was a roughly equal division of Buffet and Heckel players in England from 1900 until the 1950s, when the Heckel took over. That's why I speculated that the recording might be older than its 1992 copyright date.
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2013-08-21 15:57)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-08-21 03:41
Kim Walker plays a fagott, not a basson, and Kim Walker is the player in the Schubert Octet recording you have; therefore, when you listen to the recording, you are listening to a fagott, whatever you may think you are unmistakably listening to. (In English, perhaps misleadingly, we call both 'a bassoon'.)
And it's Richard Hosford, not Peter Hosford.
Incidentally, we have just played a season of Falstaff at Glyndebourne, in which performances Howard Dann played the basson marvellously. We have also just played the Brahms Requiem, in which Jane Gower played the fagott equally marvellously. Correspondingly, I played a French system Buffet clarinet in Falstaff and a German system Ottensteiner clarinet in Brahms.
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rmk54
Date: 2013-08-21 17:22
Um... What's that word you wanted us to remind you of?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paula S
Date: 2013-08-21 19:24
Love Richard H! Had the pleasure of hearing and having instruction from Peter C recently at summer school. :-) http://www.musicforyousummerschools.co.uk/chamber.htm He has his own stamp but can hear the influence of Richard H in his playing. Peter is a wonderful player and a most generous teacher !
Post Edited (2013-08-21 19:26)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: wkleung
Date: 2013-08-22 00:34
Ken,
I play both the basson and the fagott. On the recording you listened to, it is 100% a fagott. Kim Walker plays only fagott, if she is indeed the player on the CD, like Tony Pay pointed out. Cecil James was the last major bassoon player in English who used the French bassoon professionally, and he retired decades ago.
In France, musicians I know (Gilbert Audin, Maurice Bourgue etc.) refer to the German bassoon as "fagott".
Sincerely,
Wai Kit Leung
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-22 01:03
Wai Kit Leung -
I'm confused. I thought the bassoon world was divided into two parts, the German (Heckel) and the French (Buffet or Selmer).
Is there a third style, the French fagott?
If Kim Walker played a Heckel on the recording, it certainly sounded exactly like a French instrument.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: wkleung
Date: 2013-08-22 05:33
Hello Ken,
The French refer to the German (Heckel) system bassoon as "fagott". Is that clear to you?
To my ears there is no semblance of a French bassoon in the playing whatsoever.
Sincerely,
Wai Kit Leung
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-08-22 06:07
>> I play both the basson and the fagott <<
What is the difference? Is this also a langauge difference (i.e. different in different countries/langauges)?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: wkleung
Date: 2013-08-22 06:37
The two instruments are very different. More different than, say, the Oehler-system clarinet and the Boehm-system clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
