 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: pattarmm
Date: 2009-08-13 17:36
I will be a sophomore at the University of Wisconsin Eau Claire currently in pursuit of a Music Education degree (BME). I'm starting to have an anxiety about my after college plans... I would like to teach, but I'm torn between middle school/high school students or teaching at the university level. I love the idea of getting younger kids excited about band, but I have a desire to be a college clarinet professor and work with students who love clarinet and want to excel.
So this leaves me with a dillemma..
should I go for a job right out of college, teaching somewhere for younger students, or should I go to grad school, get a degree in music performance, and risk not getting a job right away (because I've heard that having your masters can cause problems with trying to get a job because you're "overqualified" and they have to pay you more).
Ultimately, I believe I would like to go with the college professor route, because that allows me to teach, and to keep playing ( which i strongly want to do).
I'm lost! If I went to grad school, I wouldn't even know which one to choose!!
Please help..
Megan Pattarozzi
www.pattarozzi.com
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Author: USFBassClarinet
Date: 2009-08-13 17:41
Hello,
At the moment I am about to be a sophomore at USF as well. The general advice at my school is to teach some and go back for a masters after you have experience. Colleges generally won't hire a teacher who doesn't have experience anyway. I believe at USF they told us all the teachers there don't even get considered for a job unless the have 5 years experience.
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2009-08-13 17:50
My son had a similar situation with similar ambitions after earning an undergraduate degree in music performance.
He worked for a year and ended up in law school.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-13 21:54
I graduated from the UW-Madison in 1964, spent one more year there in grad scl and then took my first teaching job while completing my MSEd-Mus degree--Which I got in 1966 at UW. After a few years and a job change, I returned to teach in the Madison Public Schools at a middle school which I retired from after 30 yrs. In addition to full time teaching--I loved middle school kids, btw--I continued to perform on clarinet, saxophone and flute where ever I could and, as a consequense, never returned to college to pursue my DMA. No time, too lazy to get back into the "study mode", earning money & supporting a young family, procrastination--whatever....I have always regretted that I did not keep going right after the masters. Back then, it would have been possible for me to enter the UW's (then) new DMA program without having to pass any prerequesite music history or theory tests--basically, just foreign lanuages, advanced clarinet work and choosing a thesis. The research and writting would have been easy for me then. After a few years away from the "grind", not only would eveything have come much slower, but it would have been practically twice as expensive
My advice, then, is to pursue your dreams, get all the research and course work in while your capacity to learn is at its optimum level and never look back after that. Do it while you can....you'll never be sorry.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2009-08-13 22:31
You'll be sorry if you leave school with two or three degrees in your late 20s with nothing to show for it. Following your dreams is fine, but make no mistake that when you do that you are taking a huge risk to do so. It sounds fine to say "never look back," but when you're forced to look back it doesn't sound as good.
I'm not saying you shouldn't continue on in grad school, but I was about to write a post telling you to be wary of anyone using the phrase "follow your dreams," when I saw the above post. Things are never that simple, and all you can really do is make smart decisions along the way. I recommend you work as hard as you possibly can and if you do not get into your top choices for grad school, re-evaluate your plans. Many, many clarinet students have been forced to change careers at a later point when they saw the writing on the wall at a later point. It's good that you're thinking about this now, but the best you can do is just work hard and wait and see.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-14 00:00
I know a great many fine clarinet players with their DMA's that can't find a university job. That job market, like performance jobs, are very scarce and the competition for them is fierce. My advise, as someone that has taught a great many fine players, is to teach a few years, same some money. Then if you still have the desire get your masters, which you will probably need anyway to get your raise steps in most school systems and then see if you want to continue on to a DMA. Feel free to contact me if you need and want any more advise. Good luck, ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-08-14 00:01
Go to college and university websites and read the clarinet instructor biographies. You'll find that all of them have been professional players and have years of teaching experience. The only exception would be where a well known player retires goes directly to a conservatory position.
The competition is ferocious. By all means follow your dream, but be prepared to do something else.
Sorry about that.
Ken Shaw
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2009-08-14 01:14
I think it's great that you're starting to ask these questions now. Too many people wait until their senior year, and then start to panic because they don't know what they want to do with the rest of their lives.
You have been given a lot of different opinions, and there are no right or wrong answers. Take your time, and decide what's best for you.
My experience was somewhat similar to William's. However, I got a job right out of college and started working on a masters degree (while I worked full time) about a year later. I got my masters in music ed. a few years after that, and never went back for a DMA or Ph.D. Like William, I never got back into the "study mode," and I was also occupied with earning money and supporting a family.
It would be nice to consider getting a job as a music teacher, and returning to college a few years later to get an advanced degree in performance. Many people have done it. However, it isn't easy. When you're a full time teacher, it is hard to find the time to practice that you had as an undergrad.
After I earned my B.M. and started working full time, my playing skills definitely slipped. I did some performing, but the ensembles were not at the level of the groups I played in while in college. I think it's safe to say that many other music teachers have similar stories. I took lessons again while working on my masters and I did all right, but I didn't play at the level I did while I was an undergrad. I was so busy with my job (and work for my other masters classes) that I didn't have the time or energy to spend a couple hours a day practicing.
Here's what I might do. On your own, contact band, orchestra, and choir teachers in your area. Ask if you can come in and observe. Offer to tutor students who are struggling or ask to run a sectional. Are you comfortable with the idea of teaching orchestra or vocal music? Today's music teachers are often asked to wear many hats--I've seen plenty of band teachers who are asked to teach a vocal music or strings class, vocal music teachers who are asked to teach 5th grade band, etc. Get out there and really see what is going on in the world of music education. Talk to every music teacher that you can and see what they have to say about the profession and the job market. Unfortunately, many universities don't give their students a true picture of what music teachers really have to face in the real world.
After doing this, you might find that you love music ed. You'll be very well prepared when it's time for you to student teach. On the other hand, you might discover that music ed. really doesn't interest you at all.
If the thought of being a school music teacher doesn't appeal to you and you have a burning desire to be a performer, I'd consider going on for a performance degree when you graduate. However, I'd go in with my eyes wide wide open. I'd really consider what Ed Palanker says about the job market--Ed always has great common sense advice, and I'd really think about what he has to say.
If you decide that you're not sure about performance, but you're not really sure about education either, there are other things you can do with a B.M.
As someone else pointed out, you could consider law school. You could also pursue graduate degrees in HR or business. There are a number of completely unrelated masters programs that are open to those with
a degree in music.
I want to share a couple true stories, and I'm sure that others can share similar stories. When I started college, there was a clarinet player who was first chair in the symphony band. I, like many others, really looked up to him. He was a quiet guy, and was in music ed. He graduated after my freshman year and found a teaching job. I lost track of him, but saw his wife several years later (I was a young teacher at the time). I asked how he was doing, and his wife told me quite a story. She said that he just didn't like teaching. He was miserable and really wanted to get out. He went back to school, got a degree in business, and went to work for a bank. He was much happier in his new job.
Another fine clarinet music ed. major that I knew very well was a year older than me. He stayed on for two years after graduation to get a masters (I think it was in theory/comp.). Then, he went off in a completely different direction. He got a MBA in finance, and went into the business world. He worked for a major corporation for many years, and was very successful. He went on to get a Ph.D. in something completely different, and he's doing very well. I really can't speak for him (I haven't seen him in many years), but I'm guessing that he doesn't regret his decision to leave music.
Good luck with your decision.
Post Edited (2009-08-14 01:20)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-08-14 10:16
I had no real game plan when I got out of school, so I went to grad school. Once I got out, I had no problem getting a teaching job, or any subsequent ones. I have been a professional player all along. In most areas you need to acquire a master's at some point anyhow. It will save you from having to try to deal with getting the degree while you try to hold a job and deal with real life. In fact, if I had it to do over, I would have just stayed the couple more years and gotten a doctorate. FWIW- I know a few players who had gotten the doctorate and ended up teaching public school successfully with no problems.
Follow your dreams. It will work out. It is better than to later wish that you had.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-08-14 18:04
The odds of your getting a College teaching job are just about slim to none. Have a backup and a good one at that. Get as much schooling as you can.
That's not just for you, it applies to any Clarinetist who wants a College position.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2009-08-16 02:00)
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Author: GuitarGirl
Date: 2009-08-17 12:20
I'm still in high school, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
At the university in my city (NC State), all education majors are required to get a Masters. They take 5 years to get it. It is to make them more competitive in the job market for "GOOD" teaching positions. Within 10 or 15 years, a masters may be the norm for teachers. If I were you, I would spend the two years or so to get a masters while you're used to school work (as stated above). If experience is needed to become a university teacher, teach middle school for a few years.
Again, I am not well versed in the musical education department.
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Author: USFBassClarinet
Date: 2009-08-17 13:24
I just looked a bit around the USF requirements, and it might be different elsewhere, but to even apply for the masters program you have to teach two years. Might want to check out requirements for other places.
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