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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-12-18 03:45
I've noticed the clarinet support brace by Stephen Fox Clarinets in another topic but I think I would prefer something similar that doesn't need mounting by clarinet technician. Any recommendations?
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2024-12-18 04:58
Someone I use to play had a device sold on etsy.com or a similar place, made of flexible plastic in the shape of, I want to say, and upside down "U," one end of which attached to the music stand and the other end provided a place to insert the bell while you played.
I can't find it (yet) on the internet.
If you play sittting, there's always the knees and legs....or a music stand shelf e.g. https://tinyurl.com/3hkj4nmh...much that you may want to fabricate something to prevent side to side movement in the instrument....
Post Edited (2024-12-18 06:07)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-12-18 13:28
Ergobrass or RDG BHOB.
Why people bother with slings/neck straps for clarinet (or oboe and straight soprano sax) is beyond me when they do absolutely BUGGER ALL in taking the weight off your right thumb/hand/wrist/arm.
Slings/neck straps ONLY work on instruments with sharply angled crooks like saxes, bassoons and bass oboes - they DO NOT WORK with straight instruments (oboes, clarinets and straight soprano saxes) where the weight of the instrument is the issue.
If you can't rest them on the chair seat, then rest them on your right knee instead.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2024-12-18 13:29)
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-12-18 13:58
Chris P
I certainly need a neckstrap as my right thumb hurts and I find It improves my playing so much! I use a BG ZEN-strap S50YB-MSH. I hook it up on a little rope my clarinet technician installed on my clarinets(just wrapped it up on the thumb rest, It's very stable).
It works very well for me, but I also need that horizontal weight off for pain-free playing. In the past, I also tried the Ton Kooiman thumb rest but It was a hustle to find the perfect position and It was slowing my playing speed compared to the stock thumb rest, so I returned it.
I play upright all the time but even If I was sitting, I'm not comfortable with my legs closed holding the clarinet.
SecondTry
This is the most interesting one but not available. Does It exist anywhere else?
https://www.wwr.co.uk/daniel-s-claritie-clarinet-support-that-takes-all-the-weight-off-the-thumb-aclarinetsupport.html
Post Edited (2024-12-18 14:09)
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-12-18 15:19
When I was recovering from a broken wrist I had a "clarinet spike" made. Like a cello spike- it points down from the instrument to the ground, remaining parallel to the clarinet, and has either a pointed end or round ball that makes contact with the ground. It is attached to the clarinet at the bell tenon and takes most of the weight of the instrument off the right hand.
I only ever used it IN PERFORMANCE once (for a long and challenging minimalist piece), and used it for the dress rehearsal for Nixon in China (another long minimalist piece!), but mostly found it quadrupled the time I could PRACTISE without causing fatigue or pain.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-12-18 19:29
With a sling, you still have to use your right arm to support the clarinet and hold it outwards otherwise it'll just drop straight downwards, so it's not going to take all the weight off your right arm or do anything for your posture.
I see loads of clarinet players using BG slings and they're not doing anything of any real benefit for them, especially where posture is concerned as they usually lean forwards to allow the weight of the clarinet to get the better playing angle - supports will allow the player to sit upright instead of slouching to get the correct playing angle, unless your preferred playing angle is with the clarinet pointing due south instead of being held outwards.
Telescopic supports WILL take all the weight off your right arm. Try it out and you'll see.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-12-18 20:15
Jimis4klar,
Have you seen a hand therapist?
If you have not (and I mean hand, not physical or occupational therapy), that would be my next visit.
Treat underlying problem and maybe you will not need a brace.
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Author: MarkS
Date: 2024-12-19 00:48
From reading the posts on this thread, I infer that many posters are lucky enough not to have right thumb problems. I am not so lucky. I have arthritis in the base joints of both of my thumbs, and without an adequate support, I would not be able to continue to play the clarinet. I might add that while hand therapists are sometimes helpful, if they could solve all problems, hand surgeons would be out of business. In my case, I could have my joint surgically reconstructed, but for now, using a "sling" has permitted me to avoid this unpleasantness.
I learned about Daniel's Claritie (link provided above by SecondTry) from a post by SunnyDaze on this board. I have used it everyday for several years. It works with a neckstrap, but unlike the strap alone, it does indeed (!!) take all the weight off of the thumb. In fact, one could remove the thumbrest (or remove the thumb from the thumbrest) and still play the clarinet. The thumb is still useful, but only necessary for rotational stability.
This product is cheap, does not require any modification to the clarinet, and can be used either sitting or standing. It attaches to the clarinet using a very thin ring with a small hook that is inserted between the lower joint and the bell. It comes with a neckstrap and two rings, allowing quick switches between B-flat and A-clarinets. I found the rings perfectly sized for my Buffet Festival, but a little tight for the tenon on my Yamaha CSVR A-clarinet, so I asked Daniel to send me a slightly larger ring. Also, I much prefer using an elastic strap, rather than the strap that came with the product. I believe I am using a BG strap that is several inches wide (perhaps called a "harness"); it spreads the weight over my neck and shoulders. Depending on your size and shape, you may need to make a small adjustment by bending the wire. I use my belt to anchor the base, but a larger person might place the base above the belt.
The Claritie may look like a glorified wire coat hanger, but it is a rather clever invention.
Mark
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2024-12-19 01:14
Given that Stephen Fox has been very accommodating in my dealings with him: the fabricator the OP originally mentioned, but shied away from given the need for professional installation (or holes in the instrument,) perhaps his http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/Accessories.html "Neckstrap extension rod (ring mount):" a device requiring no holes, can accommodate or be made to accommodate his "Clarinet support brace."
steve@sfoxclarinets.com
Post Edited (2024-12-19 01:19)
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-12-19 18:35
Chris P
That's why I'm looking for that extra to take the horizontal weight off. My posture while playing is fine, I don't lean forwards and the gravitational weight is off already by the strap.
I've contacted WOODWIND & REED, It'll get in stock in the next year. Daniel's Claritie is what I was looking for! Thank you SecondTry!
Stefen Fox seems to work equally well but I prefer something that doesn't need mounting on clarinet.
m1964
No hand problem. I was complaining about right thumb pain since I started clarinet, since I was a kid.
Post Edited (2024-12-19 18:36)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-12-19 19:04
Whatever you use, find something that works simply and effectively and isn't a load of faffing about having to attach or remove it every single time.
What I like about the Quodlibet FHRED (which has since been replaced by the RDG BHOB kickstand) is it remains attached to the ring on the thumbrest and is ready to use in a heartbeat. What you may also want when using clarinet stands/pegs is having them raised off the ground so they're within much easier reach if having to reach down to pick them up causes elbow pain.
If your clarinet pegs have a sturdy and heavy base, you can always have someone make extension pieces from metal tubing and fitted with the appropriate size threads so they're between 150mm (6") to 300mm (12") higher so you can grab the lower joints easily (as you should always hold and carry assembled clarinets by the lower joints).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2024-12-19 19:06)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-12-19 20:16
“No hand problem. I was complaining about right thumb pain since I started clarinet, since I was a kid.”
In that case, I’d look into thumb/hand positioning-I had the same problem and relocating the TR 10mm up helped a lot.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2024-12-20 15:42
When I developed tennis elbow and found that prolonged clarinet playing was painful I tried a neckstrap and immediately rejected it for the reasons people have shared above. It was a struggle to keep the clarinet from being pulled in and simply created more elbow and wrist pain.
Looking for something more effective, I took an old silk necktie and tied it in a loop. I slipped it over my head and placed my right arm through the loop, then put my right elbow in playing position and cradled my elbow in the loop, which acted somewhat as a sling for a broken arm. With a few adjustments for length I found that the sling took all the pain away and also allowed the clarinet to be played at a better angle.
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2024-12-23 05:19
Hi, I had a support made about 40 years ago now. An engineer in Sydney used to make them.
Simply a metal post with a stomach brace, fitted with the standard two straps.
The top of the upright post fitted over the thumb rest with a slot and was rounded and chamfered inside the slot. It used a plastic tube to hold the clarinet in place. The plastic tube was punched at the widest point of the thumb rest to hold the clarinet in.
I have tried up-loading a picture but it does not want to work.
I have one of Stephen's supports for a couple of basset clarinets he has made for me. I find the design I use better. It provides a better balance and sits on the stomach better, it is lighter and less rigid feeling. I use it on the basset clarinets as well, which are very bottom heavy for obvious reasons.
Happy to send a photo if you want to have a look.
Generally, a great product. I would suggest not using a support such as this constantly as it can result in fixed postures, and healthy movement is very important. If an injury already exist the reduced movement may not be ideal, even though it takes away the weight.
Using a force gauge the clarinet as a rough approximation is about 600g to hold out from the body and about 600g grams to hold up with the thumb. One was slightly less.
What you are talking about is likely myofascial type injuries.
Happy to provide some book titles if you want.
Generally, an increase in practice/workload will potentially trigger or exacerbate and injury.
Change in technique or another similar task will result in the same. E.g. using a screwdriver extensively.
The muscles involved are usually the flexors and are attached to the outer side of your elbow. The common muscle effected in your hand is the adductor pollicus (flexor) which is the muscle between your thumb and other fingers. Give it a squeeze you might find it hurts. You might also press against the outside of your arm it may also be sore.
The injury can flow up your arm and into your shoulder, neck and back.
From a treatment point of view, well worth looking at your environment, set-up, treatment and ongoing management. A move towards practice techniques that reduce the load e.g. motor learning, cognitive strategies, review of technique, practice habits etc.
Smarter practice, not, longer practice.
Finding someone can be tricky. In the US there is the performing arts medicine association PAMA, other countries have differing groups. I was previously a member.
Its about finding a person who knows what they are doing.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-12-23 17:50
I fitted a sling ring to a basset clarinet fairly recently as those aren't the easiest instruments to support with just a sling and use your right thumb without something giving. The owner had an Ergobrass support so she could use the standard length one while seated and the longer extension piece for playing whilst standing. I fitted the sling ring (a Yamaha alto clarinet one) at a distance below the thumbrest where the instrument was much better balanced than just resorting to clipping it to the thumbrest given how bottom heavy that would've made it.
To find the balance point I had the player hold the basset clarinet in an unorthodox manner which took her some time to get her head around instead of holding the lower joint in the usual place. That was to find the best point of balance and I marked that with a lump of Blu-Tack so I could then mark that point on the back of the lower joint with a pencil, then line up the sling ring and drill the four holes to fit the baseplate to the body. It's obviously doing the trick as I haven't heard of any problems since doing that.
The same thing can be done with a regular clarinet if you find the sling rings soldered to the RH thumbrest aren't allowing the instrument to balance as you'd like it, provided it still allows plenty of room for your right thumb.
Just because something is located where it is by the maker doesn't mean that's always the best location for it and that doesn't just apply to thumbrest locations. And because something has always been fitted in a specific location doesn't mean you have to suffer as a result if it's causing you as a player any grief, so have the necessary adaptations made to suit you and your own comfort as everyone's physiology is different.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2024-12-23 22:44
Attachment: IMG_3435.jpg (904k)
Attachment: IMG_3436.jpg (1055k)
Yet another approach.
A while back my wrists were hurting me. It turns out that in an effort to improve my fitness and spend time on my rowing machine I was making those wrists sore: nothing that some wrists straps couldn't address.
But before I figured out the cause and effect of what was going on I took a BG France Clarinet Strap kit's ring assembly https://store.weinermusic.com/products/bg-france-clarinet-strap-regular-sling-with-extension-rod-c20, installed the ring (no holes) on the lower joint, and glued the straight portion of the ring assembly that normally connects to a neckstrap into a wooden dowel and block, no doubt inspired by Stephen Fox's "Clarinet Support Brace" http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/Accessories.html only with no screws.
I can still attach a neckstrap to counteract the forces of gravity, but the wooden device I made also fixes the distance of the clarinet from my body.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2024-12-24 18:46
I like seeing all these different approaches and learning about the thinking that goes into the solutions. There's no "one size fits all" solution the source of pain and discomfort might be in the thumb, hand, wrist, or elbow. Two questions come to mind.
A soprano clarinet, even a Greenline, isn't all that heavy. For people, especially beginners, who tire from the effort it takes to support the instrument but haven't yet developed joint or muscle problems, would some mild strength training be useful? Maybe just daily exercise with hand weights? Might it fend off physiological injury?
Secondly, I've grown used to playing my bass with a peg and adjusting to having movement of my head and upper body somewhat restricted. I also find that I need to raise my music stand. Never having used one, does using an extended peg on a soprano limit head mobility or does the lighter weight allow for more flexibility? What if you share a stand with another player – anyone had experience with this?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-12-24 23:02
You still have plenty of movement with a kickstand-type support, unless you like the annoying habit of that excessive ducking and diving and swooping about like some players like to do.
They don't make you have to sit absolutely stock still like a statue, but they still offer side-to-side and some forwards and backwards movement to be able to see around the flute player's head if they turned up late and just plonked themselves down right in your way regardless.
The clarinet (or oboe or cor) will pivot on the end of the stand and there's also some movement in the clip where it clips onto the thumbrest ring. And as they're clipped on near the middle of the instrument, that too allows for more movement than if it was fixed to the bell like a bass.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2024-12-25 00:11
Quote:
...unless you like the annoying habit of that excessive ducking and diving and swooping about like some players like to do.
Oh yes, that "snake charmer" style – makes me wish those supports were used more often!
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-12-25 14:22
Over the years I've had a couple of people with the "snake charmer" syndrome. One of the downsides of the 21st century is that they can look at YouTube and say "but XXXXXXXXX plays that way and he's more famous than you". Maybe they have a point, but in general this behavior has more downsides than upsides.
- "Student 1", advanced clarinet student (left to study in Europe, oddly enough ended up focusing on musicology). I made this guy play with the "Bell spike" I described above and the most immediate and noticeable change was that he could play longer on one breath. Before, he was moving around so much that he'd run out of air sooner... when he held still to play his air lasted longer as he wasn't combining clarinet playing with aerobic exercise!!!!!!
- "Student 2", advanced classical sax player who went to study in Europe and has (as far as I know) stayed there playing professionally. My way to stop HER moving around was to get her to stand/balance on a "longboard-skateboard" while she was playing (on a carpeted floor, not on a smooth surface). Once she got used to this, she still moved around but way way less than before. Playing result- breath support/core in the sound greatly improved.
A bit off topic, but in both cases reducing (not eliminating) the extraneous movement had a positive playing outcome.
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Author: graham
Date: 2024-12-25 17:22
Clarinettists duck and weave. Oboists nod like pecking pigeons. Flautists hike their instrument horizontally into your sightline and readjust their sitting position constantly so you can never get your peep hole to the conductor settled. The conductor occasionally decides he/she must conduct the front row of the violins so the beat drops out of view.
If only everyone would stay still and put everything they have down the instrument, how much better it would be…
graham
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2024-12-25 19:05
I'm not sure that I'm guilty of effecting much motion when I play, but in times when I feel the need for a neck strap this, rather than a fixed length strap, is my go to: https://tinyurl.com/2sbmas9e .
I find that it helps take weight off, not eliminate it, but does so at the benefit of greater flexibility to move the instrument in subtle ways, particularly further than a fixed strap might allow--even if only by millimeters.
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2024-12-26 03:13
Musculoskeletal injuries can occur from many factors. Weight, sustained or fixed posture, repetition, awkward postures etc. While the clarinet, may not appear that heavy the combination of the above and more can lead to injury.
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2024-12-26 05:37
Musculoskeletal injuries can occur from many factors. Weight, sustained or fixed posture, repetition, awkward postures etc. While the clarinet, may not appear that heavy the combination of the above and more can lead to injury.
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