 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ResourcefulHedgehog
Date: 2024-12-11 01:37
Hello all,
I recently auditioned for a youth symphony orchestra and I was accepted, but for the second clarinet part. I was really hoping for clarinet 1, so I'm feeling a bit disappointed, especially because I really liked the repertoire (clarinet two = boring :|)
They way they have split the parts between the pieces is a bit odd- people move around parts, so somebody who was clarinet 2 in one piece is clarinet 1 in the next. The thing is, I am the ONLY one who is never playing clarinet 1- I am always on two and I'm the case of somebody else being on two I am on THREE (The planets 🙄). So basically I am the worst out of the group....
I understand of course that there are people who are better than me but I'm just feeling a bit gutted especially since I thought the audition went quite well.
I'm now wondering if I should accept- I know that sounds really snobby but that's not how I mean it- the youth orchestra is quite prestigious in my area and so it costs a fair amount of money and I don't know if it's worth it. In the event of my acceptance this year I'm unsure how many more years I can attend because of the price, so maybe I should just stay in my current, less prestigious and much less expensive youth orchestra where I am clarinet 1, and wait until I am accepted as clarinet 1..... Of course this is not guaranteed and maybe they only accept for clarinet 1 those who have attended in previous years.
I know and have been told that playing in a good orchestra is a great opportunity and helps improve orchestral playing but I'm just not sure....
Do any more seasoned clarinetists than me have any advice? Greatly appreciated.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-12-11 02:12
You may be surprised what a difference a better group makes no matter the position you play.
Also it’s great to have great goals, but if you get a notch or two bellow you expectations it will turn out to be better than nothing. I’d take it.
…………..Paul Aviles
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Author: rs cl
Date: 2024-12-11 03:21
tl;dr: Yes, absolutely worth it.
I can understand your frustrations, but remember that (if this is your first time auditioning for the orchestra) that it is still a pretty good achievement. Maybe the people above you are better players, or have been members in previous years.
Either way, you won't regret joining the orchestra. Don't undersell playing second or third clarinet. Playing in an orchestra is a great learning experience, and if it is a prestigious orchestra like you say, then you will learn a lot from the other musicians and the conductor.
You might be the big fish in the small pond in the other orchestra, and so your learning opportunities might be less. But in this new orchestra you will learn new skills and your overall level of musicianship will benefit. The other members (of every instrument) will be higher, and you will play more challenging repertoire. Third clarinet in the Planets is nothing to be sniffed at either. It is difficult music for youth orchestras. Third doesn't always play with the 1st and 2nd parts and is somewhat independent and will give you an opportunity to shine in the woodwind section.
Years and years ago I was in a similar situation. I chose playing second clarinet in the higher orchestra, and it was a much better experience in every way.
Remember, if you want to be a professional and/or freelance, you need to know how to play as a second player, and this is a good opportunity to learn that skill. It is a skill not all can master, and you will undoubtedly take auditions in professional orchestras as a second clarinet player.
Let us know what you decide...
John.
Post Edited (2024-12-11 03:22)
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2024-12-11 04:16
Let me offer you more of a 'life experience' perspective:
If you are the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.
One of the advantages of not being the smartest person is that you get to ask 'dumb' questions that most other people won't ask because they're too wrapped up in their image/ego to ask.
Take the opportunity to become a student and absorb as much as you can from everyone else.
That's your opportunity here.
Getting back into playing after 20 years.
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Vandoren M15 Profile 88 (non-13) mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren blue-box #3.5 reeds
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Author: lydian
Date: 2024-12-11 06:32
A successful musician takes every opportunity and absolutely nails it, whether you think it's beneath you or not. Those sorts of players will get the call backs and eventually move up. So be the best second clarinet you can be and keep that work ethic throughout your career.
I've got about a dozen gigs over the holidays playing many different parts, instruments and genres, some more challenging than others. But I'm going to do my best on all of them and enjoy myself and maybe learn something.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2024-12-11 07:14
I don't know how prestigious the orchestra is so can't really advise. I will say that 50 years ago I subbed on Eb in one piece with the Y.S.O of New York and played in Carnegie Hall. Still have the program.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2024-12-11 07:15)
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Author: ElizabethMH
Date: 2024-12-11 19:00
I wish I was in your position, both in terms of youth and being in an orchestra - at any position .
As others have said do take the opportunity. If anything it will help with networking. I'm curious though, what you mean by cost? Do you have to pay to be in the orchestra or is it a matter of travel, etc.
Elizabeth
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2024-12-11 19:07
This is an easy one!
Ask yourself whether the orchestra, as a whole, is one you would be proud to be a member of. Then do your best in any position they offer you. If you have what it takes you will rise to 1st clarinet and, meanwhile, you will have learnt a lot playing next to your colleagues.
If you only think of your interests in this situation it will be felt, perhaps silently, by others. Do your bit, do the work and you will find yourself in the position you desire.
Post Edited (2024-12-11 19:11)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-12-12 05:56
I am happy to play the 2nd when the 1st is a better player. Playing 2nd is a skill in itself- you need to match dynamics, tuning, etc. of the 1st which requires good amount of flexibility.
Post Edited (2024-12-12 08:38)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2024-12-12 13:54
I agree with my friend 1964! There's an art to playing second clarinet. You are often in the throast register and there is a lot of obble-gobbling on either side of the register break. And it is a lesson in humility. Go for it!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2024-12-12 22:25
I'll throw another thought that's kind of off-topic.
I played 2nd clarinet at a community college 25 years ago. I sat next to this pretty blonde girl who played the oboe. :-D
We dated and we married about 4 years later. (We divorced 12 years ago though.)
So you don't know what else can happen!
Getting back into playing after 20 years.
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Vandoren M15 Profile 88 (non-13) mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren blue-box #3.5 reeds
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2024-12-13 16:16
If you're intent on becoming professional it seems you can't be too fussy about which desk you have to play on. In London, it's apparently not uncommon at a recording session to find the four horns booked for the event are all Principals of one of the main professional orchestras in London (LSO, LPO, Philharmonia etc.) They're too professional to let any form rivalry get in the way of doing a good job.)
A top London professional clarinetist of a past generation, Basil Tchaikov, wrote in his autobiography, how he would need to play first or second depending on circumstances. On at least one occasion, he found himself playing first to Gervais de Peyer on second. Basil noted how even then Gervais played the second part like a soloist. If a player of the enormous stature of de Peyer can play second then any of us should be able to.
Another example is the John Wilson Orchestra in the UK. A hand-picked orchestra of the country's finest players (first clarinet from the LSO). The rank and file violin desks are filled with players who are leaders or section leaders of other professional orchestras. Those leaders don't seem to mind taking a back desk.
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Author: LFabian
Date: 2024-12-14 19:53
I’ve never thought myself as a 3rd clarinet. Although I’ve never had a private lesson, i raised myself by reading, practicing, anything to help me improve. I consider myself at least a high 2nd. Expectations for 1st. Experience, leadership and musicianship are high, which i do possess. 1st clarinets have to show up “all the time “.But I realize 3rd is a role that has to be filled because the 3rds don’t have it. They have tremendously bad habits. They are just players and don’t have the skills I have. I’ve taught piano for 16 years. Put on a senior recital. Etc. pretty sure everyone that has played with me know I am extremely good and resourceful. At 76, I can’t expect more rather being a “member of the band”.
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-12-15 01:54
I would have to say that some of the best music lessons I had were "playing 2nd". The Principal of the APO put up with me as "sub-2nd clarinet" for 10 years and during this time the skills I learned GREATLY improved my principal playing in other groups.
As Principal clarinet, very little of your total playing time is spent playing "solo", and when you DO play you are most likely having to "fit in" with instruments in other sections as well as your woodwind colleagues. The skills of being a 2nd player- listening to intonation, playing WITH your colleagues (including matching their phrasing on a subtle level) and matching their rhythm/attack/decay etc ARE ALL SKILLS YOU NEED AS PRINCIPAL. And not knowing/understanding this will be quite bad for your career (ie, you won't have one).
BTW LFabian, the 3rd clarinet part is just as essential as the 2nd which is just as essential as the 1st (assuming we're talking concert bands here). 3rd clarinet played badly will wreck a performance just as much as the principal clarinet squeaking in a solo.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2024-12-15 10:40
Donald: very wise words!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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