 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: leui
Date: 2022-01-31 21:01
Hi,
I'm completely new to the clarinet, so I've been looking for a nice, clear fingering chart to print out. Unfortunately, I haven't yet found a single one, mainly because they all show the fingerings not as you see your hands looking down the instrument (which to me seems like the completely logical way), rather the other way around, a bit like reading upside-down.
Is there any explanation for this? To me it makes no sense at all. It looks like I'm going to have to manually edit a chart in Paintshop and flip each fingering diagram 180 degrees, which will probably take me ages.
Post Edited (2022-01-31 21:05)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-01-31 21:18
I'm sure it's done that way because the designer of the chart is looking at the clarinet from the front, not for behind and above as a player would be. And many charts have simply been lifted from one book to another (newer) one without much thought or editing.
The six holes for your fingers won't be any different in reverse. Depending on how new you are, you may not need to use many of the keys on the sides for a while.
You'll probably waste less time if you get used to acclimating yourself to the standard chart. If you do manage to develop a chart in reverse orientation, it may be the only chart you'll ever be able to use.
You could try standing an existing chart up on a surface (like a music stand) and read it in a mirror. Online meeting apps like Zoom and Google Meet have a setting to reverse the image orientation (to produce a mirror image). Maybe you could use that and get a screen shot?
Karl
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2022-02-03 09:44
I never thought of looking at fingerings from the player's point of view when playing. That's probably because I started on Saxophone, and you can't see your fingers. LOL.
The charts are drawn the way they are because the top of the horn (away from the ground) is at the top of the page. The mouthpiece is "up".
Try to develop a concept of the horn based on your whole body spacial awareness, not the abstract perspective you see when you are playing. If you think about it you will realize that low keys are further away and down, not higher. It sounds like you are looking at the keys when you play. I've never actually tried that. You need to know where the keys are are by "feel", not sight. Try taking the horn out of your mouth when you look at where your fingers are.
However, I agree that most fingering charts are abysmal.
I'm just guessing, but the difficulty may have something to do with this: On GPS enabled maps (like your phone) "forward" is almost displayed as "up". "Up" now means "forward". Before GPS "up" always meant "North".
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2022-02-03 13:02)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2022-02-03 18:32
I don't think I ever looked down at my fingers when first learning the clarinet!! The standard fingering charts never bothered me...
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Author: prigault
Date: 2022-02-03 19:51
I don't think looking down on one's fingers is a good habit to get into.
Following that "logic", the next move should probably to request musical notation to show up like a road ahead of the performer, upon which they handle notes like Super Mario (rewards for "in-tune" and smooth legato, penalties otherwise). Not sure I would want anything like that, although I am sure some kids would love that kind of multiverse...
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2022-02-04 00:09
prigault wrote:
>
> Following that "logic", the next move should probably to
> request musical notation to show up like a road ahead of the
> performer, upon which they handle notes like Super Mario
> (rewards for "in-tune" and smooth legato, penalties otherwise).
> Not sure I would want anything like that, although I am sure
> some kids would love that kind of multiverse...
>
This sounds a lot like "Guitar Hero". I don't know if there is any Clarinet Hero version coming...could be fun!
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-02-04 00:16
I really like the fingering chart that comes with "The New Tune a Day Book 1 for Clarinet".
https://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Tune-Day-Clarinet/dp/184609027X
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Author: kehammel
Date: 2022-02-04 07:25
One solution is simply to print out the fingering chart, turn it upside down, and place it on a table. This way the bell of the instrument in the chart will be furthest away from you, just as the bell of the instrument you're holding is, and the right or left positions of the various side keys in the chart will agree with the positions on your instrument.
For most people this is unnecessary, because they can just flip the chart image in their head. But people vary a lot in how they process spatial information, and some don't find it easy to distinguish right from left when the frame of reference is changed. Possibly this kind of spatial mixup is one contributor to dyslexia, to take one example.
In the end, you just have to produce a map in your brain of the finger positions for each note, and it's no big deal if you need to flip the chart around to make the correct associations. Just do whatever it takes to get there.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-02-05 01:00
You should get used to not looking at your fingers whilst playing - you should be able to feel exactly where the toneholes and keys are unless you have nerve damage in which case using a mirror is far better.
Fingering charts are logical as they're laid out either left to right or left down to right rather than the other way round.
I bought a sax mute which fully encloses the instrument and a clarinet teacher commented on it, saying 'you can't see your fingers while you're playing'. Why would you even be looking at your fingers while you're playing?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: leui
Date: 2022-02-05 01:50
Thanks for the replies.
Seeing as "Guitar Hero" has got a mention, if any of you here play guitar you'll be familiar with chord fingering charts. On these charts, the low E string is shown on the left and the high E on the right. This is because (if you play right-handed guitar, as most people do) it makes sense to represent how your fingers appear on the fingerboard as you look down the neck. It would still make sense even if you were blind and couldn't see your fingers at all.
The small percentage of guitarists who use left-handed guitars (for whom the standard charts appear the "wrong way around") would in the past have had to make do with using right-handed charts. These days they can download and print out left-handed versions, which, unsurprisingly, *they usually find easier to use*.
As I'm a complete newbie to the clarinet, I don't want to "make do" with using fingering charts that seem to be the wrong way around, it will only make the learning process more difficult. "This is just the way things are done, you should get used it" seems to be quite a prevalent way of thinking among classical music-type people (or so I have noticed). I'd prefer to use an alternative way of doing things if it makes more sense / makes things easier for me.
I could have read this entire thread upside down if I wanted to but I much prefer the less cumbersome way of reading. Anyway, I found a clarinet fingering chart and separately flipped all the diagrams. Here it is: https://i.ibb.co/bBxYKRh/clar.jpg
Cheers.
Post Edited (2022-02-05 01:51)
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Author: donald
Date: 2022-02-05 01:52
In the time you have written on this thread you could have learnt F major scale in the lower register. AND G major. AND probably Bb major.
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Author: leui
Date: 2022-02-05 02:05
To be honest I could have done more useful things in the few minutes it took me to write a couple of posts on here.
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Author: leui
Date: 2022-02-05 02:07
It did take me a while to create that "logical" fingering chart, though.
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Author: leui
Date: 2022-02-05 02:20
Any other newcomer to the clarinet who is similarly repulsed by those dreadful upside-down charts, will hopefully find this thread and download my far superior editted version. ;D
Okay, time for practise or something.
Ciao.
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Author: prigault
Date: 2022-02-05 04:17
leui wrote:
> Any other newcomer to the clarinet who is similarly repulsed by
> those dreadful upside-down charts, will hopefully find this
> thread and download my far superior editted version. ;D
>
> Okay, time for practise or something.
>
> Ciao.
I sincerely wish you good luck in you clarinet learning, but if you find standard and pretty innocuous conventions "dreadful", "backwards" "repulsive" at this early a stage in your learning process, I can only wonder how much of your energy will be drained by existential battles when you come across other questions such as embouchure, voicing, practice habits, material and performance.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2022-02-05 05:54
Leui,
I think some people here have been unnecessarily hard on you. People here are very knowledgeable and can be very helpful. If you find that what you are being told doesn't help, you should do what works for you.
Just be aware that way you are thinking about it could make things harder down the road. For example, if you think of the high notes as "down", and the low notes as "up" it makes things more complicated. When the notes on the page go up on the page, the fingerings in your brain would go "down". You're liable to get dizzy. (Just kidding.) It's easier to keep everything going the same direction.
Also, everyone talks about the "bottom" of the horn as the bell, and the "top" as the mouthpiece.
There's also the fact that pretty much every fingering chart for every woodwind in history of the world has the bell at the bottom.
I'm not telling you not to use your chart (which you did very well), just be aware that there is more at issue than hidebound tradition.
On the other hand, it might be good for teachers to be aware that younger people grow up differently than they did, and as a result see things differently. I would never have guessed in a million years that a fingering chart looked upside down.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2022-02-05 06:01)
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