 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ben Shaffer
Date: 2021-03-24 16:14
I've not played in any ensemble for quite awhile.
A local Community Band is gearing up to play in early April.
We are told wind Instruments need a cover.
Ive sent an email to ask for clarification on this and would it include Clarinets?
Any idea where one would get a cover for a B flat Clarinet?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-03-24 17:05
A Google search brings up a whole page of hits (some are sources, some are information about).
If you search for "Clarinet bell covers" on Amazon, you'll get a variety of them.
Protec makes them - I found this quickly at JW Pepper & Sons, but their shipping charge will probably equal the price of the cover: https://www.jwpepper.com/Protec-Instrument-Bell-Covers/11332814.item#/submit
Maybe someone in the band's executive group will consider buying them in bulk and selling them to individual players.
Karl
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2021-03-24 17:13
What is the instruction for the flute players?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-03-24 17:17
tucker wrote:
> Seems to me a bell cover would be pretty much useless in
> containing aerosols. Here's a site for covers for the entire
> instrument.
>
> https://www.mccormicksnet.com/Clarinet-Cover-p/3070015.htm
IMO, covers of any kind are pretty much useless for this. Distancing is an important way to reduce spread, but in the end, I think there's no safe way for wind players to play together until they've been vaccinated.
I've never tried to play with one of these whole instrument covers, but they look really awkward to use in the pictures I've seen.
Karl
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Author: Ben Shaffer
Date: 2021-03-24 17:29
Wow!
Tons of good and important Info
Seems if Everyone that plays in a group would have their vaccines, it would make Covers pointless!
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2021-03-24 18:44
Scientists till now are not sure that vaccination prevents spreading:
"There is no good evidence from animal studies that we can really achieve sterile immunity."
Prof. Klaus Cichutek, Paul Ehrlich Institute
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2021-03-24 22:27
MichaelW,
I wonder if the opposite is also true: That there is no good evidence from animal studies to show the lack of achievement of sterile immunity?
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-03-24 22:39
Oh gawd - the madness is spreading.
Virus or no virus, vaccine or no vaccine, bell covers for any woodwind instrument are pointless, useless and a complete waste of money.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2021-03-25 00:08
Yes, public schools are spending tons of money to get bell covers for wind instruments. For woodwinds they are pretty much useless considering the fact that most air escapes though the tone holes.
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2021-03-25 00:39
In fact, putting a cork in the end and not playing bottom E would probably be equivalent!
I think the issue is that rules from government level say "bell covers" and you can't argue with them - it's easier to comply than to argue.... I understand 80 denier tights are considered acceptable.
Flutes are agreed to be the highest risk to others, so need to be seated where they don't blow over anyone.
Basically there are rules and there is good practice; sometimes they agree and sometimes they don't. What we all have to do is just to follow local rules even if we don't agree with them because arguing won't succeed... and just hope we can start playing again soon. In the UK, Brass Band England seem to have the most proactive approach to getting bands back to playing - but not yet|!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-03-25 00:50
Another insane and laughable thing are masks with holes in them marketed at wind instrument players.
Someone somewhere is laughing all the way to the bank cashing in on the back of this. And that's not just the current UK government with all their blatant money laundering.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-03-25 01:10
Chris_C wrote:
> Flutes are agreed to be the highest risk to others, so need to
> be seated where they don't blow over anyone.
Like, in a different room. Or completely enclosed individually in plexiglass.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-03-25 01:14
Chris P wrote:
> Another insane and laughable thing are masks with holes in them
> marketed at wind instrument players.
Yes, the youth music organization I work with is returning to in-person rehearsals outdoors on April 11 (if it isn't too cold) after a year of online activities, and I was told the organization will be providing those masks. I had never heard of them, although I should have guessed that someone would have come up with the idea. Hard for me to see the point of that kind of mask.
Karl
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Author: clarhorn ★2017
Date: 2021-03-25 06:12
From the National Federation of State High School Associations:
https://www.nfhs.org/media/4029971/preliminary-recommendations-from-international-performing-arts-aerosol-study.pdf
Includes: “•Wind instruments produce aerosol,which vary by instrument as well as intensity.Trends that the team has measured include:-Woodwinds have aerosol coming from keyholes and bells.-Brass have aerosols coming from bell.
•At this time, it appears that if players wear surgical style masks with a slit for mouthpiece ANDbell covers, aerosolemission isreduced. Flute players can put the headjoint between their mouth and mask (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3T6h1muUic) and use a “flute sock” attached to the foot (see https://youtu.be/7if6TMZy5OM).
•Bell covers tested so far were made from pantyhose made of 80 denier in 2 layers”
from: https://www.nfhs.org/articles/unprecedented-international-coalition-led-by-performing-arts-organizations-to-commission-covid-19-study/
Performing Arts Aerosol Study Preliminary Results 3 On YouTube is 59 minutes long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG1bcAWLazg&t=6s
Some science by the Minnesota Orchestra with the University of Minnesota:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0021850220301555
They concluded among many things that “Accordingly, we categorize the instruments into low (tuba), intermediate (bassoon, piccolo, flute, bass clarinet, French horn, and clarinet) and high risk (trumpet, bass trombone, and oboe) levels based on a comparison of their aerosol generation with those from normal breathing and speaking.” At least on the stage of Orchestra Hall in Minneapolis. Ventilation pattern makes a difference and on stage up draft from lights maybe more important than blowing out toward audience.
Roger
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2021-03-25 14:38
Fuzzy:
„There is no good evidence from animal studies that we can really achieve sterile immunity."
Prof. Klaus Cichutek, Paul Ehrlich Institute
„I wonder if the opposite is also true: That there is no good evidence from animal studies to show the lack of achievement of sterile immunity?“
I don't know which design was used in this study, but for the moment the conclusion ought to be, in any case: you can't be sure! So, after being vaccinated, wearing masks etc. is still necessary. I think Dr. Fauci would (or did) approve this.
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2021-03-25 17:02
Buffet Crampon has been looking into the problem of desinfecting wind instruments and the potential spread of Covid19 by players in action, as has (if I remember correctly) a philharmonic in Germany. It would appear that the risk is in proximity without masks, so it would seem that distancing the musiciens and having all non-wind players use masks is the best strategy. It is not at all evident that masking the instruments themselves is useful, although it has been shown that flutes (open system) project farther than clarinets (closed system) etc. I've seen several covid epoque concerts on TV where this has been employed, including for a choral group where only the solists were unmasked (and the performance sounded just fine).
https://www.leparisien.fr/yvelines-78/mantes-la-ville-l-alcool-a-70-efficace-contre-le-covid-c-est-pas-du-pipeau-11-03-2021-8428102.php
I had a link to a video of aeosols produced by wind instruments but can't find it for the moment.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2021-03-25 18:56
There is kabuki, and there is science. A lot of what's going on out there is kabuki, partly for respectable reasons (sponsoring entities need to LOOK like they're doing something about COVID or they can get sued).
For science, though, I'd direct everybody to the Minnesota Orchestra study Roger mentioned above; their study was scientific and (to my way of thinking) definitive, although with the caveat that Orchestra Hall has superb ventilation, unlike a lot of rehearsal spaces I know of.
Here's a short video the Orchestra made after the study was conducted. It's a quick precis of what they found, with some eye-opening findings as to which instruments emitted the most aerosols.
https://mnorch.vhx.tv/interviews/videos/safety-in-the-spotlight
I caught an Orchestra of St. Luke's concert last night with Jon Manasse at the DiMenna Center; as far as I know, he had no covering on the horn, and no plexiglass gobo around him at all. The 4 string players he played with were all distanced and masked. I've seen Minnesota Orchestra concerts online where the full orchestra is spaced and masked except for the winds; it's clearly an evolving set of understandings.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2021-03-25 19:35
MichaelW,
Quote:
I think Dr. Fauci would (or did) approve this.
Dr. Fauci is to science what Pete Fountain is to classical music: Distantly related, but mostly improvised.
;^)>>>
Fuzzy
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2021-03-25 22:14
Sorry, Fuzzy, but having a degree in Public Health myself, Dr. F. in my view is absolutely in accordance with leading epidemiologists and Public Health specialists and, by the way, a brave man who wasn't deterred by massive political pressure (at least from an European point of view).Sorry if that' a bit o.t.
Post Edited (2021-03-25 22:21)
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2021-03-25 22:43
MichaelW,
Sorry, MichaelW - no disrespect meant towards you. I do see where you are coming from.
However, Fauci has admitted to misleading the public on important issues, and admitted that he hasn't always followed the science. He might be a great guy with a great history...but he sure hasn't been too worried about sticking to the science during this pandemic.
As per many of the "studies" pertaining to singing, playing instruments, etc.: we have lots of non-peer-reviewed studies out there...yet very little is known, very little is reviewed, and even less is replicated or proven. That was my underlying point. When we believe things without the scientific data to prove them - we're dangerously close to religious belief instead of scientific knowledge. At minimum, we tend to lean toward our own pre-existing biases outside of the scientific realm in those instances.
I appreciate your background, and I lack in that expertise. However, I do have a background in communications: Misinformation is (most times) worse than no information. It removes natural caution, and allows people to move in the wrong direction with certainty. This is my main complaint about Fauci.
I'd be happy to pursue this conversation with you off-bboard if you wish. The topic is interesting to me.
Warmest Regards,
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2021-03-26 00:47
Please, leave this BBoard alone for its intended purpose, which most certainly is not learned arguments for and against certain epidemiological contingencies.
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