 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-04-22 12:57
I'm practicing Bartoks contrasts at the moment...20 years after performing it (taking advantage of confinement). In the last movement, the great composer gives us four measure to switch from B-flat clarinet to A clarinet, and then after a slow passage, 4 measures at a very fast tempo to switch back to B-flat. How have you managed to do it? I personally cheated the last time: played the whole of the third movement on my B-flat clarinet. Otherwise, we would have to have both clarinets equipped with their respective mouthpieces and reeds-with a danger of the reed going dry. Your thoughts and solutions please? Thank you.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
Post Edited (2020-04-22 12:57)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2020-04-22 15:37
For quick switches as you describe (having not performed Contrasts, but have had to make fast switches) I’d take the A barrel + mpc for both clarinets.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-04-22 16:07
James: so do I. But there isn't even time for that! Usually what you spoke of works.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2020-04-22 16:50
Ruben,
Just ask the pianist to vamp the measure before the clarinet and violin enter until they see you are ready you come in.  Yes, laugh, but it's what happened to me before, and with the quick thinking of the pianist and violinist it worked out.
For no vamping (playing as composed) , it's a quick change, you have 4 bars and 1 beat at 140.
But in the previous section, you have a diminuendo to ppp and a ritardando, followed by a breath mark, (no need to rush into the 2/4 tempo I).
This gives you about 5 seconds to make the change.
Tom
Tom Piercy
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-04-22 17:25
It seems like the fermata between 131 and 132 and the breath mark after 168 offer opportunities to give enough extra time to make the changes if you're quick about them.
There is a recording made by Joseph Sigetti, Benny Goodman and Bartok - it's on YouTube. Goodman is playing the A clarinet part - there's a low E at 151 that you need to change if you play it on a Bb clarinet. They don't wait very long at the fermata or the breath. So I wonder how Goodman did it. Maybe he had two complete setups (with their own reeds and mouthpieces). Or his mouthpiece was just *very* well greased and he had practiced the change.
Karl
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-04-22 18:27
Karl: I don't know if Benny ever played the piece in public. I doubt whether he did. Two complete setups is a good idea. We have time to wet the reed between movements two and three and the B-flat clarinet reed won't have time to dry up during the central slow movement Tom: your idea is good! Vamp till ready. This would actually have to be carefully rehearsed for the sake of security. I'm sure nobody would notice a thing. PS: It's funny that Bartok didn't realize the practical difficulty of this switch and Goodman didn't point it out to him. I think they were basically aiming for the recording of the piece rather than performances.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-04-22 20:13
Hi Ruben,
I never played the piece but I did some quick clarinets changes in the past when I played professionally.
The middle part of the movement written for the A clarinet, looks to be playable on Bb clarinet. I don't think anyone in the audience would hear the difference. There are very few Bs that would become throat Bb, otherwise there would not be so much difference in tone, esp. playing in a trio -the difference would be very difficult to hear.
I would play the whole movement on Bb clarinet.
No need to fiddle with different instruments, IMHO.
There were cases when I had played parts written for Bb clarinet on the A clarinet because there was no time to switch and the most of the piece would be for the A clarinet but Bartok is not the case.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-04-22 20:56
1964 (I wish I knew your real name!): I agree totally. All the more so as today's B-flat clarinets have a darker tone than they did in the past: are closer to the A clarinet. But...there's a low E in the A clarinet passage: E-flat on the B-flat clarinet. Thus an unplayable note. Full-Boehm clarinet, where are you when we need you?!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-04-23 01:01
I've not played the piece (have studied it), but think using the Bb makes sense. As well, it's not like your playing in a symphony and have to please the conductor.
I suppose Bartok wrote what he wanted, so using the correct clarinet may be the right thing to do. If you're not lazy like me.
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Post Edited (2020-04-23 01:01)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-04-23 05:11
Ruben wrote:
"... today's B-flat clarinets have a darker tone than they did in the past: are closer to the A clarinet. But...there's a low E in the A clarinet passage: E-flat on the B-flat clarinet. Thus an unplayable note. Full-Boehm clarinet, where are you when we need you?!"
Ohh, my eyesight is getting worse- I did see one low E in measure 151, in unison (octave) with violin, so it may be possible to play chalumeau Eb on Bb clarinet as a compromise.
It is also possible to compromise for another low E later- possibly "exchange" that low E (C#) with piano? But that would not be what the composer wrote.
So you must practice clarinet change more- has to be done at a slow speed first, progressing to 140.😉
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Author: marcia
Date: 2020-04-23 05:15
I have occasionally transposed a few bars to avoid the need for a fast change. There is often another place where it is more convenient to make the change. And I truly do not think the conductor has any thought about which instrument should be used, as long as things are played well.
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Author: PhilipWheatland
Date: 2020-04-23 07:34
I've not had the privilege to play the Contrasts, but I have had good results with plastic reeds.
If you're comfortable going down this route, you could load up both clarinets with a reed and mouthpiece and not worry about whether the unused reed is moist. The other advantage of plastic reeds is that they're more likely to be close to identical compared to two cane reeds.
Coming in with very low expectations a couple of years ago, I tried my first Legere Signature reed and was pleasantly surprised.
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-04-23 08:23
Yep, I've also used a Legere reed setup to enable me to safely swap entire clarinet rather than just the mouthpiece/barrel.
In 2003 I was playing a concert with Phil Green, one of the pieces was a duo with some page turn difficulties... the music fell off the stand - so I vamped the bar I was on (fortunately a harmony passage that vamped quite easily) for quite some time while Phil put the music back in order... then he joined in and we continued. The audience applauded!
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-04-23 14:25
Philip: I will try your solution on the B-flat clarinet of the 3rd movement. The reed on the A clarinet, which has been used for two movements, won't have time to grow dry. I normally don't like plastic reeds, but am all in favor of making exceptions from time to time. Thank you.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: PhilipWheatland
Date: 2020-04-24 08:07
Thanks Ruben - I hope this approach works out for you.
In his 1976 book The Clarinet, Jack Brymer gives a few words on Contrasts:
"Boosey & Hawkes, 1942. A most effective and satisfying work. Originally for A and B flat clarinets, and commissioned by Benny Goodman. B flat version available, to avoid change of clarinet in the finale. Difficult."
It'd be interesting to know if the B flat version enjoyed Bartok's imprimatur. If it did, you'd be able to justify the use of a single instrument on the grounds of expediency without having too many qualms about authenticity.
Unfortunately I'm unaware of Bartok's intentions in this regard. One for the musicologists, perhaps.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-04-24 09:23
Philip; the problem is only in the third movement. It's easy to switch to B-flat clarinet after the slow second movement. As I have pointed out, there's a low E in the A_clarinet part, which of course can't be played on the B-flat clarinet (unless it's a full-Boehm-rare these days)
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-04-24 13:19
My subject was "a quick switch from A to B-flat clarinet in Bartok's Contrasts, but actually it could be extended to a quick switch in any piece of music (there are a couple in Bruch's 8 pieces for clar., vla and piano) Thank you for the many excellent suggestions.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2020-04-24 20:27
I have the 2002 B&H publication Contrasts prepared by the composer’s son, Peter Bartok, called the ‘Corrected Edition’. In the Preface there is a reference to the use of both A and Bb clarinets :
“ . . . The first two movements and the middle section of the third are played on the A clarinet. In the first edition an alternative part transposed for Bb clarinet was provided. This is not included in the Corrected Edition as it was not part of the original concept prepared by the composer and, moreover, the A clarinet is called upon to play its lowest note.”
So, no way out by transposing clarinet parts.
Arguably, even without the firmata, performers might take a natural pause at 131 to make the divide between the two sections and tempos. It may be the firmata is there to give more time to swop clarinets (in addition to the 4 bars rest). Hard the believe that in rehearsals with Zigeti and Goodman, Bartok didn’t notice the difficult swop, or that Goodman didn’t point it out or even ask about it.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-04-24 20:59
JTJC: What Goodman did point out was: "I need three hands to play the first movement." Bartok's reply: "approximate!". -rather liberal for such a demanding composer.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-04-24 21:50
ruben wrote:
> What Goodman did point out was: "I need three hands to
> play the first movement." Bartok's reply: "approximate!".
> -rather liberal for such a demanding composer.
>
Well, Goodman *was* paying for the piece. Maybe Bartok was being diplomatic?
Karl
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-04-25 09:25
Karl: When you read about Bartok's life -"the Naked Face of Genius" for instance- you see that diplomatic was the last thing he was. He was totally uncompromising, to the point of making his and other people's lives intolerable.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-04-26 16:58
Oddly enough, at that point in the 3rd mvt where there is a low E on the A clarinet, the B flat part just has a dotted crotchet (quarter note) rather than the quaver-crotchet (8th to 1/4 note) in the original. So someone has actually slightly re-written the part (rather than an octave transposition or jump) with slightly different notes and rhythm, which I suspect couldn't have happened without Bartok's approval?
dn
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