 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2018-04-15 09:45
I've been playing on a close face mouthpiece (m13l) with 3.5 v12 reeds and with the arrival of the warmer weather and the humidity going up, I've been gradually going toward the softer 3 traditional reeds. I believe that this is a relatively soft setup because I know a couple of classmates who play on 4.5 V12 or 4 strength traditional reeds.
I don't know how they manage to do this.... When I even try to play on a 3.5 traditional, I feel so much tension and it's almost impossible to play. Is it normal for me to use a 3.0 traditional on a close face mouthpiece? Perhaps it's me because I've been trying to avoid the bite and blow.
I've been trying to move up to harder reeds (at least a 3.5 traditional, 3.5+ v12) because my setup, although easy to play, is really hard to control large intervals and altissimo notes get all over the place.
Are there any physical characteristics of harder reeds that make the better than softer reeds? Perhaps they have a longer life because they use a stiffer cane?
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Author: jonnyswife
Date: 2018-04-15 15:04
If it works for you, you've done your 'research' and you're aware of the other options available to you, (and thus have made an informed decision that you are happy with!), then I really don't think it matters what other people are using...?
I normally use a 3 (either traditional or V12, just depends), and I use a Backun MoBo Philadelphia (1.15mm - website says it 'requires a very strong embouchure and reed setup.' :-O) or a Grabner K13* (closer, at 1.03 - 1.05mm). I will obviously go for a different reed on the closer facing mouthpiece, but not so much I'll change strength. If it helps, I live in Northern Ireland...
IMO a lot depends on your teeth, the position of your jaw, and the kind of sound you want to make. You will balance the resistance to suit your needs and your playing. Talking to other people is useful, and learning from them, but at the end of the day you are YOU and you've got to be comfortable.
Also worth bearing in mind that some people bite an awful lot more than others! How boring it would be if we were all clones...
You do you!
Post Edited (2018-04-15 15:12)
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2018-04-15 17:00
Forcing yourself to play a hard reed can create tension that transfers to your shoulders and hands.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2018-04-15 17:02
There is no advantage to playing a harder or softer reed than that which gives you the result you're looking for. For sure, using a reed to hard, or too soft, for your comport level is not good. I've always advocated using as strong a reed as comfortable not using anything harder. So much depends on the mouthpiece you use, how much to take in, how strong your natural bite is, teeth formation and a host of other phyicial atributes.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-04-15 17:53
As I have said in earlier posts, the reed and the mouthpiece are a marriage. The numbers are only to let you have a bit of consistency when getting a new box. I can reface a mouthpiece that a #5 reed was way to soft, and another where a #1 reed is too hard. There are a few inexperienced players who like to brag that they play on 'hard' reeds. Pick the strength that suits your playing.
Another myth is that you need hard reeds to play the high altissimo range. If your reed, embouchure, air, ligature and mouthpiece are doing their job, you can play play that range with soft reeds. I test my soft reeds playing the high altissimo C7 and the D and Eb above that.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-04-15 18:05
GenEric wrote:
> Are there any physical characteristics of harder reeds that
> make the better than softer reeds? Perhaps they have a longer
> life because they use a stiffer cane?
It really isn't an issue of soft vs hard reed, it's one of responsive vs unresponsive/stuffy. When I was growing up and studying in Philadelphia there was only one type of Vandoren reed, and they were graded Soft, Medium Soft, Medium, Medium Hard and Hard. I don't actually remember the number designations of the three lower strengths, but Medium Hard was identified as 3.5-4 and Hard was 5. It was almost axiomatic among the working "classical" clarinetists I knew or was exposed to (including all of my teachers) that you bought "Hard" Vandorens and "adjusted" them. What that meant was that you found the most responsive reeds in the box and spent a few minutes (if you were skilled) balancing and *thinning* the sides to make the taper smooth and the reed responsive, vibrant and resonant. You didn't play on reeds that had to be squeezed in a vice-grip-like embouchure with lots of jaw pressure. You didn't very often play them out of the box, but the extra wood that needed to be scraped off gave the player room to customize the reeds and still provided the advantages in sound and life-span of harder, denser cane.
I should add that most of those players were playing on Chedeville or Kaspar mouthpieces (or others made from their blanks) with very similar facings - tips around 1 to 1.05 mm and curves from 16 to 18 mm. I think that style facing was probably popular because it could work well with the stiffer cane.
But, I'll re-emphasize that the adjusted #5 reeds that my teachers and their contemporaries played on were not "hard" in the sense of hard-blowing. I think too many younger players today, if they move to harder reeds, tend to play on them as they come out of the box and think the price for any advantage of the harder strength is that they have to bite and blow harder.
I'll also suggest that today's top reed strengths are harder than the #5 Vandorens of my student and young adult days ('60s and '70s). I've mentioned before that I recently came across several reeds from pre-V.12 days that I had put away. They were mostly far more playable before adjustment than anything I've found in a box of modern maximum-strength reeds. I don't know if the cane is different, the profiles are different, or the rating scales have changed, but I found the comparison between modern reeds and those earlier Vandorens rather stunning.
Karl
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2018-04-15 18:55
Harder reeds give more pitch stability. The negative is they are less flexible for pitch. Test various reeds with a tuner.
Pick the strength for the room.
Endurance is a factor. If your mouth is tired after playing then perhaps you should rethink things , especially if this occurs frequently.
Record various strengths of reeds with microphone far away and also close up. Have someone listen to you playing these various reeds.
Also play duets and trios to get feed back from other players.
In all likelyhood what you have been doing for the last year or two is what works. Don’t dismiss this.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: jonnyswife
Date: 2018-04-15 19:06
I have just been comparing reeds from 2018 to those made thirty+ years ago (it's in a different thread) and some of the feedback from others (re. hardness of reeds) has been interesting.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2018-04-16 07:56
If I had your situation, I would take a careful look at the facing on the mouthpiece. The table, the rails, and the tip would be interesting and I would make any necessary changes as I reface my mouthpieces if needed.
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Author: jordan.1210
Date: 2018-04-16 11:12
I'd say play with a set up that gives you the results (articulation, tone, etc.) that you want. For my usual playing in my clarinet group or college's pepband, I still use my Yamaha student clarinet and closed tip 4C MP (looking to upgrade soon, but kinda reluctant because I'm pretty happy with my setup and altissimo range (A6 comfortably, getting more consistent to D7 though)) with a 3.5 traditional or 3.5 V21, still experimenting but thinking of switching to V21's. I've tried a 4 traditional and it was way too stiff for me. Meanwhile if I am recording for my online orchestra where the mic picks up everything, I like a 3 though since the 3.5 sounds a little stuffier.
I played on softer reeds for a lot of my playing (2-3) in primary school, but I like a harder reed because I find it has a deeper, rounder tone and allows me to play louder and higher.
Reed preference will vary by player, you should use what works for you. Take advice and try new things, sure, but if you don't like it, you shouldn't force yourself to play it, especially if it will hurt your playing. My friend in high school decided that a switch from 3 to 4 or 4.5 was what he needed and I think I remember him saying he hurt his throat because of it.
Post Edited (2018-04-16 11:17)
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2018-04-17 00:17
No-one can tell you what’s right for you. But it seems that everything is not working perfectly for you.
It sounds a little soft to me, knowing the vandoren recommendations. I think not biting is an important goal, but be careful you are not equating that with no or too little muscle effort in your embouchure (particularly sides of mouth)
That being said, I would also be curious to know if the problem with wide leaps and the altissimo is all down to the reed or if there is a technical issue (breath support, embouchure consistency, tongue position etc) that needs resolving.
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2018-04-21 03:42
Just remember, the overall amount of resistance you feel when you play depends not only on the reed strength, but the mouthpiece as well. It's the combination of the reed and mouthpiece that determine how much resistance you feel when you play. The more open the facing, the more resistance, so the softer read you need. With a more closed facing you get less resistance, so then maybe you need a stronger reed. And the amount of resistance is not a matter of right or wrong. It's a matter of what's right for YOU.
I don't think the read strength/size number is any indication of a player's skill level (unless maybe you're a brand new player). It's just a number. It's an arbitrary number depending on whatever mouthpiece you happen to be playing. You have to match the reed size to the mouthpiece to get that "just right" amount of resistance. And "just right" means, whatever is right for YOU. You'll know when you've got it right. And only you will know. I wouldn't worry about what strength reeds everyone else is playing. They will all have different mouthpieces with different "just right" amounts of resistance for them.
What really matters is how well does your setup let you play. If I have a setup and can get a great sound, good intonation, responsive tonging, etc., then It wouldn't matter if the reed was a size 2 or a size 5.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2018-04-21 17:39
There is a difference between reed hardness and strength.
I think that reeds that are graded hard due to primarily density of cane, can have a brittle quality to the sound. Thicker reeds for the same strength, with less dense cane, might have a rounder, more mellow sound, IMHO.
You should use reeds that are just strong enough to facilitate a beautiful sound, good articulation and play the necessary range of the instrument. If you need a #7+ reed to play three octaves above high C, and you don't need to do that in your normal music making, you are wasting your time (and your lip).
Bragging about how unnecessarily strong your reeds you are using is about like bragging about how lousy your gas mileage is on your car.
Tom
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