 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ksimon
Date: 2014-08-30 16:46
I write to inquire about best practices in clarinet pedagogy regarding the remediation of excessive back-of-tongue-motion during articulation. While I understand that clarinet tonguing is vertical not horizontal, excessive motion adversely affects speed, clarity, and sound. It becomes more problematic as one ascends, particularly with the altissimo. Retraining the tongue in order to have the front portion move independent of the back portion is challenging for many. Having a variety of pedagogical approaches can only enhance our teaching and, perhaps, our own playing.
Karem J Simon
(902) 566-0702 [office]
Post Edited (2014-08-30 18:38)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-08-30 18:50
I'm not sure that you *can* train the tongue "to have the front portion move independent of the back portion." It's all one piece. In any case, in my experience simply getting the student to move his tongue less distance from the reed fixes this, if I understand your question clearly.
The longer the excursion away from the reed, the longer it takes to return. And the farther the front of the tongue moves in the mouth, the more the back needs to move to provide space.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-08-30 23:38
bmcgar wrote:
> Sounds like hinge tonguing to me.
I don't know what that is. Can you elaborate?
Karl
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2014-08-30 23:46
Karl,
It's probably been called by other names, but it's been discussed here before. Maybe "anchor tonguing"?
Basically, it's using the back of the tongue to touch the reed instead of the tip, the tip being kinda "anchored" at the bottom of the mouth, the tip being the hinge by which the back of the tongue moves.
Clear as mud, huh.
B.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-08-30 23:58
Oh! I do understand "anchor tonguing." I'd just never heard it called "hinge tonguing" before.
I guess anchor tonguing could be involved. It's usually pretty easy to find out by just asking the student a couple of questions whether that's what he's doing. And some players (one of my early clarinet teachers who played in the Philadelphia Orchestra at the time) play very successfully that way.
Karem, I would ask what problems you hear in this student's staccato that indicates there's a problem. You mention speed, clarity and sound being affected, but what narrows the problem down to excessive "back-of-tongue-motion" rather than some problem farther forward where the tongue as contacting the reed or some movement in the embouchure itself?
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-31 00:44
If I am understanding this description correctly you are saying that it is only the very front part of the tongue that moves more in a 'flicking' or 'wagging' sort of motion.
It would be well for us all to realize that the tongue is made up of MANY different muscles (obvious if we keep in mind that the job of muscle tissue is merely to contract, the forearm goes up with biceps and down with triceps.......since our tongue can move in MANY different ways, there are many different muscles responsible for each of those movements).
Any sort of proper training (from the outset) or RE-training (after one already has a habit built up) must be done S-L-O-W-L-Y and methodically. As Robert Marcellus once said, "learning to tongue correctly is like potty training." Of course that comment was met with a resounding "Oh Bob!" from his wife. And the reply to that was, "but it's true Marion!"
From my limited experience I'd say that the speed of tonguing may not necessarily be aided by a more efficient motion using fewer muscles in this case. The true limit on speed seems to be dictated more by the percentage of what quality muscle fibers one is born with (fast twitch or slow twitch). But I am all for doing whatever can produce a better effect.
Do you have a training technique or two you can share?
.............Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2014-08-31 00:45)
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Author: Ksimon
Date: 2014-08-31 00:45
Karl:
Anchor tonguing is not at issue.
Visually, excessive motion is observed in the throat – under the jaw above the Adam’s apple. Aurally, the beginnings of notes are harsh, becoming increasingly so in the upper clarion and altissimo range. My understanding is that this involuntary motion caused by the back of the tongue needs to be minimized/eliminated. Placing one’s free index finger above the Adam’s apple while tonguing open G can sensitize one to this motion. Perhaps Karl, as you suggest, the problem is elsewhere.
K
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2014-08-31 01:45
Embouchure hasn't come up in this discussion, but it might be a factor. Check out this Harvey Pittel video about sax embouchure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvvilCbPjfQ
Pittel refers to Joe Allard's concepts, and shows how tension in the corners of the mouth causes tension in the throat. A very tight throat could have a negative effect on tonguing.
I think a good first step would be to check the student's embouchure and make adjustments if necessary. The student's reed and mouthpiece choices are other important factors.
Once the student has a good embouchure with a relaxed throat, try a variety of tonguing syllables. Roger McKinney likes the "nu" syllable, and it does work well for some players. In this article, McKinney also discusses the embouchure-tonguing connection.
http://www.tcnj.edu/~mckinney/tonguing.htm
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