 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: nbclarinet
Date: 2014-07-02 00:44
Hello all,
I'm having some trouble with my reeds that I can't seem to solve. For reference they are rue lepic 3.5 plus.
I usually break my reeds in over about a week playing them for a minute the first day then 2, 5, 10, 15 etc. additionally I rub the vamp and back with my finger to seal the pores.
My problem is that after only a few days, several of my reeds warp such that the tip is bent towards my mouthpiece. This makes the reeds play with a thin sound and a very un-lively response. The back pressure becomes greater because the reed doesn't want tom spring back open. I find that bending the tip back my holding on a flat surface and gently lifting the back doesn't really help as it either solves the problem for merely a few minutes or it makes the reed even worse.
I store my reeds in cases with a flat glass plate. Has anyone found a way to either fix this kind of warpage once it happens or prevent it somehow during the break in process. When I open a new reed it plays and feels very springy but I need to prevent them from losing this quality. I'm not sure that going up in strength is the answer since they definitely feel just right...maybe slightly too hard right out of the box.
Any help is greatly appreciated
Thank you
Nik
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2014-07-02 01:33
Try inserting a credit card between the reed and mouthpiece and bending back slightly. This is similar to what you are doing on a flat surface but maybe it will help.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-07-02 01:35
It sounds to me like your biting down on the reed.
How open is your mouthpiece?
Maybe try a softer reed.
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: nbclarinet
Date: 2014-07-02 01:39
I have a fairly closed mouthpiece which adds to the problem although it's a great mpc. And I was using v12 3.5plus so these should already be a small step down in strength.
I don't have a biting issue really. This past year I started doing some double lip warm ups which eliminated it.
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-07-02 01:56
The V12s and Rue epics are directly comparable strengths.
Have you tried just playing them and not breaking them in?
I broke in reeds once for my first exam but I overdid it and wore them all out, now I play on reeds until they've lost their life then pick another up and do a concert on it. I guess it's a little risky but I do warm ups on them and if anything is terrible ill either try and improve it or bin it. Reeds are like that.
Have you tried wetting them and running thumb along to try to straighten?
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2014-07-02 02:03
You're biting. They're not warping. You can still bite when you do double lip, trust me I know, I used to do it myself. I worked on biting by warming up with a drone while I do scales to make sure I'm not biting in the upper register.
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Author: nbclarinet
Date: 2014-07-02 02:10
I'm quite sure that I don't have an issue with biting....I changed my setup last year and I've had my teacher look at my embrochure specifically to check for biting
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Author: nbclarinet
Date: 2014-07-02 02:12
Also, at least according to vandoren v12s run slightly harder then lepics
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-07-02 02:13
Truly warped reeds result from uneven drying between one surface and the other. I can't say the glass is causing the problem - by preventing the flat side of the reed from drying as quickly as the vamp - because so many players use those cases without a consistent problem. But you might, just as an experiment, try leaving the reeds as you finish using them out of the case and drying flat side up (bark lying on whatever surface you're leaving them on) just to see if the problem changes in any way.
My first reaction, though, is similar to BbMajorBoy's. When my students have problems with bent reeds like the ones you've described, it's a result of something they're doing after they wet the reed and begin to play. It may not be true biting. Maybe you're taking too little mouthpiece in, so that you're applying whatever pressure you use against too soft a part of the reed at a point where you have more distance over which to force the reed to flex toward the mouthpiece. A couple of minutes of this and the reed may be nearly unplayable.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-07-02 03:10
I second Karl's assessment. If you do the standard SQUAWK test (play open "G" with as little mouthpiece as possible....then keep sliding more mouthpiece in as you continue to play until you get a great big SQUAWK....back off just slightly back toward the tip - this is the ideal fulcrum for your mouthpiece) you should then be applying pressure at this ideal spot and there should be no undue bending at the very tip.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2014-07-02 22:37
I have had similar problems in the past. Reeds will sometimes warp (or bow) lengthwise when kept on a plain piece of glass (not in a case), if there is no pressure on them to keep them flat as they dry. A reed case with something to hold the reed down to the glass, or some other type of reed case similarly designed to hold the reed flat during drying, may work better for you.
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2014-07-02 23:31
Yes, wood/cane sometimes warps against the grain as it dries because it is cut along the bias at different (undesired) angles. But if all of your reeds are bending at the tip towards the mouthpiece you are biting. I'm glad your teacher doesn't think your biting, maybe you weren't when you played for him. "The proof is in the pudding" as our friend Tom Ridenour likes to say. I'm confident that your double lip embouchure has helped, but you probably start biting when you practice and perform for long periods. Old habits die hard. Seriously consider the drone, it forces you to keep your jaw open and tune with your tongue position and air usage rather than your jaw.
Also, you come here looking for advice and people say one thing over and over, maybe they know whats up. The majority of clarinetists bite, there is nothing wrong with it so long as your willing to fix it and work on it. Otherwise, why ask?
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-07-03 00:44
I've been playing woodwinds since the 1970s and I've never seen a warped reed, either longitudinally or athwartships. I think there's too much fooling around rubbing reeds, closing "pores", coating them with substances, and "breaking them in". A reed is meant to be played on, not worshipped.
I go through a new box of reeds, choose the best few several or many, select one by holding it up to the light for a second to examine its transparency and tip thickness/evenness and the increasing density of its taper, then briefly sand its bottom side on plate glass and 1000 Wetordry abrasive paper used dry, avoiding the tip, soak the reed in 3% H2O2 for a minute or two along with others, stick it in my mouth for 20 seconds to warm it, then play it for a while and mark on it its quality.
That's it!
If a reed needs work to compete, and some do of course, I unsheath my trusty oboe knife and scrape the vamp as I was taught sooo many years ago by my patient teacher by laying the reed on my left middle finger vamp up, holding the back end with my thumb, and rotating the wide-bladed knife on its axis, back and forth against my thumb tip as I scrape the vamp according to the formula that every player knows. Here's an illustration:
https://www.tcnj.edu/~mckinney/reed06-03-01-gif.gif
Have somebody teach you how to make a reed playable once and for all. It's only a reed, for Heaven's sake!
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Author: nbclarinet
Date: 2014-07-03 01:38
Welp....thank you for all of your suggestions everyone, but I think I've discovered the source of the problem .....I took a level from my tool box and put it on the glass plate on my reed case. It's convex by at least a millimeter. Go figure???. Hopefully my music store will accept a return
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2014-07-03 01:47
Hi Nik, Try this test. While playing a long tone try increasing the embouchure pressure until the reed stops vibrating. This should be very difficult or impossible to achieve. If it is easy you need a stronger reed. (or clipping)
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-07-03 17:12
I must admit, in all the years teaching and hundreds of students, I don't recall anyone having this problem until the reed has been playing a long time and beginning to die. I agree, when breaking in your reeds you need to let them dry upside down so they dry evenly other wise the thin tip dries much quicker than the rest of it though I'm not convinced that's causing this problem. Keeping a reed flat on glass for storage really doesn't do anything for the reed. You would have to have a ton of pressure on it to mean anything and even than, as soon as it got wet it would return to any warp stage it has. I don't know if you believe in humidity control but that's the best way to keeps reeds stable in general. Using a Rico Vitalizer in an air tight bag and never allowing the reeds to sit out in the opened air once broken in is the best way to do that. I haven't had a reed "warp" in well over 30 years. I used to use a different method before the invention of the Vitalizer. I'm still not sure that will solve your problem though. If you're convinced that you're not biting and taking enough reed in your mouth, I'm not, than you need to find a reed cut with a slightly stronger, thicker tip that has the response you're comfortable with. Maybe a stronger tip but less resistance in the center or back. Check my website and read my reed pages, you may get some ideas.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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