 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: opusfish
Date: 2014-01-06 21:26
Hello,
I have recently begun playing my clarinet regularly again after only occasionally picking it up over the last 10 years or so. I had my clarinet checked over by someone who said it seemed fine, and I bought a new box of 2 1/2 Vandoren reeds before I started. My clarinet is a Buffet E-11 that was purchased for me in high school.
What I've noticed as I've begun practicing again is that although I'm not yet able to play for lengthy periods of time before my face gets too tired, I am able to hit every single note in the standard range above and below the staff. There are, however, two notes I am consistently struggling with, that I don't think should be this hard to play. The B and C that fall directly in the middle of the staff are nearly impossible for me to play without slurring up or down from another note to reach them. When I pull out all of my beginner clarinet music to play (because I'm trying to start at the beginning and develop a good tone), everything seems to include those two notes.
The fact that this B and C appear in such elementary music leads me to believe they shouldn't be this hard to play. Especially when I have much less difficulty hitting higher notes on my register. The upper register notes aren't simple to play, but they're a difficulty that I expect. Sometimes when I try to play B or C though, nothing comes out at all, and then I push too much air through and just end up squeaking.
My question is, do you think that sounds like the problem is me, or the instrument? I know it's been a long time since I played seriously, but I don't remember those two ever being this hard to get a sound out of. If there is something that needs replacement/tweaking/repair, I don't know what it is, or what to ask for from my repair shop.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-01-06 21:42
Sounds like the keys might not be closing all the way. Does the B play more easily if you hold the C down at the same time. Do they speak more easily if you put more pressure on the keys. ( you shouldn't have to use much pressure, just a diagnostic )
AAAClarinet
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2014-01-06 21:48
Those notes are about the hardest to play with the possible exception of the highest altissimo notes. Even in the best clarinets the B always seems a bit compromised. That said, almost all instruments that are not perfectly set up, could have those notes improved considerably. I have both my horns, my Buffet and my Yamaha, worked on by Wesley Rice, and I imagine that after he went over them they aren't going to play much better. Both those horns were checked out by a respected local tech and returned to me as being "good working order". In both cases Mr. Rice improved those particular notes considerably over what I had gotten before. In my opinion, the two notes which drive me crazy, because the tonal quality is obviously less good than the surrounding notes are the B above the break and the Bb below even with resonance fingering. The Bb is always going to be a little airy and the B is always going to be 20% more resistant than the rest of the clarion. Much of the time it's not the resistance that bugs me, but the lack of warmth on those notes. I feel my horns are set up to 95% of what can be gotten out of them, but to get more out of them, I'll have to improve my technique. I believe the word that is most often used to describe the mechanics of the notes just over the break is "timing". The pads have to hit the holes with no leaks and to do that they have to be set up perfectly in relation to each other.
I recommend another technician, but don't expect that to make all your problems with those notes go away. For that you need to work smarter, get stronger and have more time on the horn. The clarinet is loaded with all kinds of problems in its nature that you will have to learn to compensate for. The lowest notes are often too boomy, the throat tones are too airy, the break is too resistant, the altissimo is either out of tune, too rubbery or too strident. It amazes me that some musicians are so talented that all those problems seem to disappear.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: opusfish
Date: 2014-01-07 03:29
Thanks so much for the thoughtful responses! I know I'm out of shape, but I kept thinking, this cannot possibly ALL be my embouchure. I will look for another, more clarinet-focused, repair shop, and will print your responses to take along with me. I intend to have my pads replaced just in case, and will see if an overall tune-up helps. It's nice to know there are such informative, helpful people around who are willing to try and answer my questions. Thanks again!
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Author: pewd
Date: 2014-01-07 04:26
Run a leak test.
Top joint - seal all the holes with your left hand fingers, place the tenon against the palm of your right hand, blow into the joint with the keys closed - you should not hear any air leaking. Should be as tight as a drum head.
Ditto for the bottom joint.
If there is any air leakage at all, get it fixed.
There is a great benefit in getting cork pads on the top joint (except for the bridge 1&1 fingering pads), and synthetic (gortex) on the lower joint.
E11's have softish metal keys - much softer than on R13's - if you're not real careful assembling/disassembling, you can easily mess up the bottom 4 keys (crows foot keys). The metal is soft enough that I bend them back for my students with my fingers. A constant problem for my students playing E11s.
Have a good tech go over the bottom joint carefully, and make sure they disassemble it (not just scrape off the old pads with a screwdriver and reinstall new pads without removing the keys). There are 2 small circular pieces of cork on the lower joint that should be replaced with non compressible synthetics - the natural cork compresses, causing key alignment problems.
'B' and 'C' should not be an effort - if the pads are tight and the key alignment perfect they should pop out with ease when playing.
Good luck...
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-01-06 23:43
Ditto the leak test, but for me I find 'suction' to be a better indicator since the "Ab/Eb" key can blow open under a somewhat normal positive pressure. In the suction version, the air should hold (somewhat like a coke bottle) for at least 3 seconds if not indefinitely (with the BEST seal).
I also agree with the above on the "B" and "C." I've NEVER had any trouble with these notes (it might be a different story if you are talking about moving from the chalemeau UP to them).
Definitely sounds like a leak to me. Since the problem is starting with the 'C' my guess would be an issue with the "Ab/Eb" key pad.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2014-01-07 09:05
Try opening the throat G# or A key while fingering the "long B." That can often improve the timbre of that note.
It is not something worth doing in fast passages, but if you are lingering on the B, and it sounds woozy, this trick can clean up the sound.
Bob Phillips
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2014-01-09 09:42
You also may want to double check to make sure your fingers are completely covering all the tone holes. All it takes is one to be slightly off position for a leak to develop.
Laurie
Laurie (he/him)
Post Edited (2014-01-10 22:47)
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2014-01-09 18:05
In the past I have found B and C very easy to play on their own, but very difficult when played with other notes, say going from throat A/Bb to B/C when you suddenly need to put down a lot of fingers, accurately and all at the same tim
It only needs your fingers to be slightly off-centre and not entirely covering the holes, or not coming down at the same time, and the notes don't speak very easily. This in turn makes you tense up, interrupt the airflow and do all sorts of contortions to get the notes to play, all of which does nothing to help you play smoothly
It's only recently that I have been able to smoothly play over the break every time. Ironically this is because I now don't make any effort to play B or C. My fingers are therefore very relaxed, close to the keys and ready to play. My airflow is continuous, my embouchure is solid, and the notes sound!
Looking back, what I would do differently is to play the notes A to B and Bb to C (and all other possible combinations using G, G#, A, Bb, B, C and C#) very, VERY slowly so that the notes play perfectly, and concentrate on being as relaxed as possible whilst making sure that you don't stop blowing and your fingers are as accurate as possible. I think this would have saved me many months of frustration
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The older I get, the better I was
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2014-01-10 00:29
I believe that sometimes (more often than I would like), slurring from the throat tones to B over the break can cause a momentary delay in having the B speak. I've always wondered if it is because my fingers don't completely cover the tone holes or because the B needs more air support than the throat tones. One possible explanation is that I tighten up my embouchure in preparation for the B and create too much pressure on the reed so that the B will then require even more support because of the resulting narrower space between the reed and the facing of the mouthpiece. In general, if I relax and support, the B speaks nicely. I notice the problem when there is a quick run up the scale that goes over the break. In situations like this, even the slightest delay at the beginning of the clarion becomes obvious because the delay changes the musical value of the 1/16th notes. I never miss the B, if I start on the note because I have time to relax and prepare, but fast passages create tension of all kinds (finger and embouchure). Relaxation is the key for me. Add the natural problems with B clarion due to how easily the lower keys get out of "regulation" and you have a note with all kinds of frustration built in. We need properly set up horns, we need to support, we need to relax and then we have success.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2014-01-09 20:22
Garth Libre wrote:
> In general, if I relax and support, the B
> speaks nicely.
That's what I have found. However, it's easier said than done, and the problem is that once you get into the habit of expecting the B to be harder to play, you tend to tense up and support less!!! It took me years to work out that as long as the support is there, the less you do the easier it is
Personally, I think that playing over the break should be taught much later than it is, and definitely only when the player has got the fundamentals of relaxation and support ingrained in their playing style
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The older I get, the better I was
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-01-10 07:10
I know this an elementary approach but I would play and repeat the longest long tones of the century on the clarion B until it begged for mercy or became sweet, whichever came first. Then, showing no mercy, I would repeat the exercise on the C above.
There's an old saying in medicine, "Common things occur most commonly." meaning that if you have a headache the chances are that it is a headache and not a brain tumor.
Same goes for the clarinet; if a note that has a reputation for being recalcitrant on four continents is giving you fits, chances are it's not some mechanical defect but needs to be subdued with long tones.
Bruno
Post Edited (2014-01-10 07:25)
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-01-10 04:34
David suggested a bent crow foot. Something that would produce the same result would be if, sometime over the past 10 years, some of the felt or cork padding (depending on the instrument) could have come off the surface of the crow foot. That would definitely change the timing. Crow foot problems are most likely to effect the two large pads directly below your right fingers.
If you have someone who can help you, play the B. Have your helper press down firmly on each of the four large pads individually and then in combinations. If it suddenly starts playing clearly, you have located the leak(s) and can give your tech a more precise idea of where to look for a problem. Also check those same four pads to make sure nobody has been chewing on them.
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2014-01-10 21:25
Another good suggestion so that your lower key regulation doesn't go out of adjustment due to having to manhandle the horn while trying to get the bell on and off the lower section is to sand down the lower section bottom cork a bit. I find that it is very difficult to get a good grip on the lower section without pushing against the lower key assembly with the tips of your fingers. This constant struggle can put undue pressure on the lower assembly, possibly bending something to cause timing problems. The bell should be secure but it shouldn't be a death struggle to get it on. This simple procedure can save you the hassle of frequently making visits to a tech to readjust things.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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