 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: tegonikos
Date: 2012-04-01 19:52
Hello,
i am opening this topic becouse i am confused about choosing one of the two yamaha clarinets.
Is the hamilton plating worthing against silver?Is the hamilton plating ,more resistant from silver? i had to much problems in the past with the clarinets i ownded ,they loose silver and nickel plating to much quickly. Is the hamilton plating a solution?
nikos
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ttay1122
Date: 2012-04-02 02:30
Have you tried both. That's the only way to tell, although I have heard that people like the hamilton better because it is somehow darker than the silver. I chose hamilton because the intonation was better for me. I'm not sure about durability, I don't have high acidity in my fingers so plating wear has never been an issue with me. Yamaha claims that the hamilton is more durable than silver, which I tend to believe because silver tarnishes quickly. If plating wear is an issue, you can always coat the keys with a layer of clear nail polish to avoid this problem.
Taylor.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: blazian
Date: 2012-04-02 02:39
I don't know if the quality is the same, but I have a YCL-550AL with "Hamilton" plating. Mine has worn considerably (in some spots like the left fork posts) to even the base metal. I don't have any other Yamaha clarinets to compare it to but it was the best clarinet I'd played to date (after only playing an Artley lol). It was my daily player up until halfway through high school. Nothing on my clarinet ever tarnished though, even though I took it marching for a whole season.
- Martin
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: The_Clarinetist
Date: 2012-04-02 06:54
Good thing to start this thread, I have also thought about this. I have heard that it might wear of quite quickly and one should not be surprised since gold is expensive and they only put on an extremely thin layer of it. The hamilton plating probably will not be much affected by acidity but the everyday mechanical wear takes its toll sooner or later, I assume.
But they do look great and people claim they sound better. Then there is the price difference. And to replate them with gold or the correct hamilton plating is hardly anything you can ask your local mechanic to do. It would be much interesting though if one could apply som kind of protective layer all over the keys. Nail polish, does that really work? I guess it is as good a suggestion as any, and yes som kind of polish or varnish would be the right thing but I think we should consult some expert on this...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tegonikos
Date: 2012-04-02 07:21
i am not able try any of them. Yamaha does not have any of them as a stock here in Greece (they have only the older CSG series). It is a blind buy for me.
Here in Greece ,the hamilton plating cost is 1000$ over the silver (3000$ the silver and 4000$ the hamilton). I dont know and i am very confused about choosing one of them.
nikos
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ttay1122
Date: 2012-04-02 08:14
I've read about clarinetists with acidic hands who use clear nail polish to preserve the plate of their keys. I have tried it on an older Buffet B12, although I don't need to, but I wanted to try it. It is a good solution just make sure the coat is very even so it feels fine under the fingers, and make sure it dries completely or it will be tacky(DUH). You may need to re apply it often though. I am extremely thankful my hands aren't acidic.
I think it is very risky to buy unseen. People seem to enjoy the hamilton better though, and I like the look and attention of the gold (;
Taylor
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-04-02 10:06
Where is this nail polish stuff coming from ???!!!??? It's a HORRIBLE idea, making the keys sticky to the touch and impossible to slide. Don't suggest this anymore !!!!
As for the Hamilton plating, it IS thin (only three microns) and does begin to show wear after about a year or so on the spots most abused through use. I have heard that for some reason the Hamilton clarinets sound a little darker and since the pair I have sound wonderful (Hamilton) I will just assume that to be correct for whatever reason. So the plating will not be a permanent solution to your wear issue but it may still be worth starting with this one.
For those of us with acidic sweat, the ONLY solution is to wipe your keys off daily after use with a 100% cotton cloth (probably flannel is best).
...........Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tegonikos
Date: 2012-04-02 13:01
ok. i make my order today. I decide to go to the silver plating version. The reasons are
first ,i dont like so much the gold looking (it seems a little gipsy to me)
second, its 1000$ (850 euro) cheaper and is the same instrument.
third ,if hamilton is so thin (three microns) it will go away very fast and who going to make the hamilton plating again??with silver, i know a few instrument technicians who make very good work on silvering plating.
The bad news is that i have to wait almost 4 months for the delivery of the clarinet...(the hamilton was on stock ,delivery in 15 days)
As i say it is a blind buy and i hope i have make the right choice..
Many thanks for helping me decide!!
nikos
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2012-04-02 15:38
I have had a pair of CSG-Hs for a couple of years now and I love them. A few months ago I had them adjusted at the Yamaha Atelier in Buena Park CA and had the opportunity to play a couple of sliver-plated CSG Bb clarinets and the prototype for the CSG-II(H).
I can't explain it, but in my experience there is a distinct difference in the sound and feel of the Hamilton-plated instruments. The silver-plated ones are more brilliant in their tone-quality and the Hamilton-plate ones definitely have a rounder/warmer sound.
Also, in 2 1/2 years of moderate playing, I've seen no wear on the Hamilton plate.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2012-04-02 19:53
I don't believe the 550 (Allegro) was ever available with the Hamilton plating...was it a special order?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: The_Clarinetist
Date: 2012-04-03 18:15
Yea I have heard that the golden ones sound better. The qustion whether the gold itself affects tone has been a frequent topic here that I think we can put aside and just conclude that yamaha probably put more effort into the hamilton versions in some other way improving tonal quality and furhter justifying the higher price. A rounder/wormer sound would be great but abraded gold is not very nice. It is tricky dilemma but I think you did the right thing tegonikos, I would probably have done the same though I wish they would make the silver plated ones sound as good as those with hamilton plating.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tegonikos
Date: 2012-04-03 19:38
i believe the same.Is not posible to have a better sound only by plating material.This is for kids. If something like that was true ,then other companies like buffet, why they dont follow?maybe yamaha do some better work on the wood or something in the hamilton instruments,i dont know. For me 1000$ more just to have a gold clarinet is money that i dont give.
nikos
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-04-03 23:42
As I and others have stated, there IS a difference from one model to the other in sound. HOW that is accomplished may really be an irrelevant detail.
...........Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: The_Clarinetist
Date: 2012-04-04 15:49
Glad to see there is room for a new clarinet in a Greek guy's budget. Got the impression you are having a really hard time now, but there is probably some financial differences between individuals...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tegonikos
Date: 2012-04-04 17:41
We have hard time here in Greece ,believe me (Unemployed). On the other hand ,for some musician guys like me ,guys who love music more than anything else ,we deprived of everything to do what we love most. For someone else maybe is more important to buy a car (i dont have one,and i could have a cheap one with this money i spend for the clarinet) or clothes ,or something else. It is a matter of personal priorities.
There is financial defference between people ,here in Greece ,like every country,i know. Me ,unfortunatelly,i am on the low side...and believe me most of the people here they are.
I have deprived of almost everything the last 5 years of my life to collect the money to buy a good instrument. Part time jobs ,no house,no insurance,no car ,no big TV ,no new clothes,no holidays.
I can live and i will survive without them,trust me.Without my music i am not sure if i can...sorry
(sorry for the off topic and for my bad English..)
nikos
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tegonikos
Date: 2012-06-28 21:21
i have received my yamaha clarinet a month now.
Disappointment......
The sound is very good..very dark..(the only good)
All the others are bad..
The keys make noises like China cheap plastic clarinets. when i say noise i mean NOISE .Metal noise.Big noise...you can not concentrate..
The C#/G# key is so short ....you must have very long little finger to play it normal.
Also the same note (c#/g#) is out of tuning.
Al the keys are made for Japanese fingers. So close each other and so small.
The up A key is very close to f# ring (2mm only!) and you can not fill the f# ring key without touching the A key.
The low c#/f#and the e/b are permanently connected ,the right with the left ,and you have to move two keys every time you touch them..
The clarinet case is more cheap than any cheap Chinese case. You can not use this cheap case even in your home.
I spend 3000$ for this clarinet and i think i lost my money..
I have a old amati clarinet that is far better than yamaha csgiii
what can i say...stay away from yamaha csg clarinet...go to buffet ,selmer ,amati....or even to a Chinese plastic clarinet..
nikos
Post Edited (2012-06-28 21:37)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2012-06-29 07:55
Sorry you are having some issues with the Yamaha clarinet. Will the seller accept a return? If not, may I suggest you get your technician to shorten the A key slightly, adjust the pad height on the c#/g# key or whatever is needed to tune it. Sometimes it is necessary to add an extension on a key, if it is really too short, or bend it slightly.
I once had a gold plated Rigotat oboe which felt so very good under the fingers. It's tuning, fabrication, case, and response were wonderful, but the sound was too bright. Bob Gilbert at RDG thankfully found a buyer for it. He told me that gold plated instruments sounded better, but it did not seem to be so to me.
Good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: FanR.
Date: 2012-06-29 08:18
Niko, I can't even begin to imagine how frustrated you must feel. I'm Greek too and having to blindly buy instruments, because they are perpetually out of stock here, is a nightmare (fortunately my Buffets turned out allright)!
I don't know if you live in Athens, but if you do, I suggest you take your Yamaha to Mihalitsianos and discuss the problems with the tech. If he can't fix the issues with the short/ strange keys, there's also Paraschos (you can google him) who has a great reputation for fixes like that...
Fanis
Post Edited (2012-06-29 10:04)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tegonikos
Date: 2012-06-30 21:40
Hello Fanis
I am not living in Athens .Unfortunately its difficult for me even to arrange a road trip to Athens.
I know parasxos ,he had fix for me in the past my amati clarinet and my selmer saxophone ,and i am very pleased about the work he had made to my instruments.
The reason that i dont want so quickly to go to a technician is that the clarinet is new and i want to find a solution first with the local yamaha dealer.
what can i say...i feel like they cheat me ,and the reason is that this instrument does not worth 3000$. It is worthing below 1000$.
My old Amati has faaaaaar better quality...
The only thing that yamaha is better than my old amati is the wood and the sound (in the sound there is a huge difference)
the conclusion is that this is my first and the last instrument that having the yamaha name on it. Never again.
i dont know ,maybe i will put on sale the yamaha clarinet even if i lost some money and i will never buy a serious high level clarinet without test it first.
as far as concerning the tuning of the c#/g# key ,it can not be fix by tuning the level of the pad. That is not the problem. The problem is that the tunnel hole is going deeper in the wood ,a design that i can not understand and is the cause of the problem.
There is no way to make a tune to this sound.
nikos
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: trice035
Date: 2012-07-04 05:39
I really have to wonder if you have a genuine Yamaha. I wonder about this because my experience with my pro Yamaha clarinet is the opposite of yours. It is a superb horn in every way. Absolutely wonderful. And the case is very well made. Where did you buy this instrument, if I may ask?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mihalis
Date: 2012-07-04 07:25
trice035 wrote:
> I really have to wonder if you have a genuine Yamaha. I wonder
> about this because my experience with my pro Yamaha clarinet is
> the opposite of yours. It is a superb horn in every way.
> Absolutely wonderful. And the case is very well made. Where
> did you buy this instrument, if I may ask?
>
Niko, trice035 is right. My last four clarinets were Yamaha and I will not
buy anything else.Make sure you got a genuine Yamaha, because there
are a lot of counterfeit going around.
Mike.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tegonikos
Date: 2012-07-04 08:48
it is a genuine yamaha. I have bought it from the yamaha dealer and i was waiting 3 months delivery.I am sure that is a genuine yamaha.
if you have a csgiii could you answer me some questions?
the e/b keys (left and right) and the f#/c# keys(left and right) are permanently connected each other?
is there a very tiny yellow silicone between them and every time you use them there is a metal noise like a cheap Chinese instrument ?
the c#/g# key isn't too short and out of tune?
the up A key isn't to close (2mm) to the f# ring?
what i did is that i have make modifications to some of the keys by myself ,now i am waiting to take them back from the silver plating ,i will put the pads on and i will try them.
Second i will try to replace the silicon on the up A key with cork (the silicon between A and G#) in order to make it quieter.
the reason i am trying to fix all the keys problem and make the instrument playable is that it has the best sound i ever hear from a pro clarinet.
The sound is darker and better from any buffet-selmer i have play or hear until today.
The clarinet has perfect finish on the wood ,very dark and wonderful sound but the quality of the key design-instruction and the key settings are very poor.
if someone have use the key quality from a prestige or tosca he will probably believe that the yamaha is made in china.
nikos
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: srattle
Date: 2012-07-04 10:21
Hi Nikos,
I understand that you must be frustrated, but I have a suggestion for you.
You've only had your clarinet about a week now, right?
Give it a little time. If the dealer wont exchange the instrument for you, then you don't have a particular time limit.
Give yourself some time to adjust to the feel of the new clarinet, the way the keys are different.
All clarinet brands are different, and take this adjustment time. I know that when I fist moved from my plastic Yamaha clarinet to my first buffet, the change was dramatic (and in many ways I found the buffet much harder to play for the first 2 or 3 months)
Maybe before you make big changes to the instrument (which will affect the price of the instrument if you want to sell it) you should treat it like a first clarinet, and try to get used to it. Maybe in a few months you will wonder how you ever thought it was bad. You might also confirm your feelings that it is not correct for you, but at least you will then be certain.
My experience with Yamaha CSG clarinets was good. Great intonation apart from a very flat Bb, nice build design, good keywork (I have small hands, so maybe that is why) and the instrument was light as a feather.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tegonikos
Date: 2012-07-04 20:50
thanks for the advice but i dont care this moment about the price effecting of the instrument. fist of all is to become playable at my hands.
Second is that i am complain about the poor keywork.This is something real ,i see it on my instrument.It is not about small hands or big.
The big metal noise of the keys and the poor connections between them is something real and is something that does not belong to a pro clarinet.
i will inform the thread about the modifications i making right now.Modifications to make the clarinet to be where its suppose to be .
nikos
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gwie
Date: 2012-07-05 01:24
This seems odd to me too. I own the original CSG's (both Bb and A) and aside from one minor tuneup at Yamaha's Anaheim atelier, I've never had any issues. Aside from private teaching, I mainly play chamber music with strings, so the quality of intonation in both of these clarinets has been a huge plus.
Sounds like you have a dud! Any chance your Yamaha dealer can swap it with another?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JHowell
Date: 2012-07-05 20:27
While they haven't yet rung the bell for me tonally, I've always been impressed with the quality of materials and workmanship on Yamahas. As a company, build quality has been something Yamaha does very well. Any chance you have a fake?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tegonikos
Date: 2012-07-06 07:01
it is not a fake csg.it is original made in japan csgiii.That is for sure
nikos
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SamuelChan
Date: 2012-07-06 11:18
Could you bring your CSG to the Yamaha dealer to let them know and to show them? I'm sure they will be more than happy to help you.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
