 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-01-25 21:47
Greetings, a friend is playing on a Vandoren M30. I hear it is a very good mouthpiece. Does anyone know what the tip opening is and perhaps the table measurements? I have the M13 lyre, and I have these measurements, but wondered if the M30 had the same facing. Thanks in advance for your help.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-01-25 21:50
Don't know the precise numbers (never really paid too much attention to that). But I can say they are close to the M13, 5RV Lyre fare.
There is a bit of sluggishness on the response because the rails are thicker on these mouthpieces.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-01-25 21:59
M30, according to the specs shown on Vandoren's website, has a tip opening 0f 115 compared to M13 (100), M13L (102) and 5RV (106.5). It's also longer than the 5RV (medium short) and M13L (medium long).
Karl
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-01-25 23:47
This has been a wealth of information. Thanks, I guess there is a big difference in the tip openings between the 2 mouthpieces.
If anyone has measured the actual facing measurements, kindly let me know. I've heard the same about the M 30, being more resistant.
The M13 facing is pretty long. The .0015 gauge measures around 36 to 37, on that Eric Brand gauge. Even with a close facing on the M13 it doesn't play that way. If you open up the facing to 1.06 or so, it's pretty stuffy using a 3 1/2 to 4 strength reed. You actually have to go to a lower strength reed at 1.06mm's. The MP is also a tad bit longer in length.
Has anyone measured the length of the 2 mouthpieces? I'm getting 3.53" or 89.8mm's, on the M13. I think this may be a tiny bit longer than other name brand MP's.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-01-26 00:03
I've had several students that have played the M30, it's a very good mouthpiece for the person it fits. Rich dark sound. It is more opened as the chart shows and it is a medium length. A lot of players now play medium opened mouthpieces, 10-16 plus tip openings and medium long facings in my opinion today, to get that richer tone. It's a pretty popular mouthpiece. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2011-01-26 02:44
I played on the M13 Lyre for a couple of years and switched to the M30 which I also played for several years. I haven't compared the numbers, but since both mouthpieces played nearly the same reeds (e.g., "lighter" VD V12 #4s), I suspect that the facing curve on the M30 may approximate a "scaled-up" version of the curve on the M13 Lyre (i.e., more open with a correspondingly longer facing). Personally, I love this free-blowing mouthpiece for its dark/round tone quality and flexibility. Oddly , nearly everyone non-clarinettist I ask about the sound complains that it is too dark, lacking enough color/life. It does seem to require a lot of air and (for some) its flexibility may make it a bit difficult to control.
I would also recommend trying the M30 Lyre which on paper is only marginally different (i.e., 1.13mm vs 1.15mm tip opening). Based on how it plays, I suspect that it has a slightly shorter lay than the M30. However, these changes make for a mouthpiece with a more focused, colorful sound that is easier to control than the M30 and sounds much nicer than even the 5RV Lyre. Interestingly, (for me and others with whom I've spoken) it seems to like a bit softer reed (e.g., V12 3 1/2 instead of 4).
Both of these mouthpieces (as well as the B40 Lyre that I currently play) have noticeably wider side/tip rails than most mouthpieces. Since I have a very slow tongue, I won't disagree with Paul's comment concerning the effect this may have on articulation speed, although it doesn't seem to bother Jon Manasse! However, I find all these mouthpieces to be quite responsive in all other respects.
One drawback that I have noticed: for me, both the M30 and M30 Lyre can sometimes play a bit flat, necessitating the use of a shorter barrel.
I hope this helps.
Bob Barnhart
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-01-26 03:44
When I started taking lessons from my current teacher, I was about to ship my trial M30 back to Muncy. But new teacher was then playing on an M30... so I ended up keeping it.
It was a monster for me then. There was no way I could keep enough of the thing in my mouth. The drill was to push it in until the open G squeaked and then try to keep that "chonk" of reed in my face.
Later, just for the heck of it, I talked Lee Livengood into using an M30/13 as a blank. We wanted to see what a -13 Vandoren would do to the tuning (Buffet RC) and be like to play without the tonsil-stabbing length of the M30's facing.
He put on a much more comfortable facing, thinned the tip rail and raised the baffle above the tip opening, and that is my current mouthpiece --backed up with another Livengood facing on a Zinner that is just a bit brighter.
I think Ed Palanker's insight is excellent: good for the player it fits.
Bob Phillips
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2011-01-26 04:28
For me, comparing the the M13 Lyre to the M30 is like apples to oranges.
Personally, I play on a M13 Lyre and find the M30 far more resistant.
As a teacher, I've found most of my students sound fuzzy on the M30 in the throat tones and bright in the clarion register. It seems to be difficult for them to get a clear, homogenous sound throughout the registers on this particular mouthpiece. I haven't had much success getting them to sound their best on this open (for me) and long facing.
Some people do sound great on them though!
I suspect that players inclined towards closer facings (1.00-1.03) will not have an easy time adjusting to this mouthpiece. Personally, I like to have my more advanced students on the M13 Lyre or M15. Younger students seem fare well with the 5RV Lyre.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-01-26 14:08
Mouthpieces are very personal, what works for one person may not work at all for another. Teachers tend to have their students lean towards the type that they use or exactly the one that they use. Sometimes that works for the student but sometimes it doesn't. In most cases it just makes it easier for the teacher not to have to deal with finding the best solution for each individual student. I've had students that sounded wonderful with a closed facing that I could hardly play and I've had students that sounded just as good with more opened facings. Probably only one out of ten that ended up with the same MP as I use. Teachers should try to match a mouthpiece to the student not fit the student to the mouthpiece in my opinion. I've always stocked over s dozen different mouthpieces for my students to try and I have them try them with several different strength reeds because some work better with a hard reed and some with a softer reed. But that's just me.
ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2011-01-26 15:14
I started playing on an M13 (series 13) about a month ago. My teacher tried it and he liked it. He now has added an M13 Lyre to his collection. So, I guess I influenced him (as opposed to him influencing me). He plays on a variety of mpc's. I'm not sure of the exact ones, but he has a Fobes, a Hawkins, some Vandoren (and maybe others, too) hanging around his studio.
We also found that V12-4 reeds work better with my new setup, so he offered to buy my new (unopened) box of blue box 3s for his younger students (I was using them on a 5RV series 13).
Rachel
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2011-01-27 03:56
I have the measurements for one sample:
109, 8, 14, 25+, 40. Of course, everyone's tip gauge is a little different. My tip gauge reads 2 points higher than Matson's, if that helps you any.
The last two numbers seem long to me; possibly even beyond specs. If you're trying to copy the facing, I'd start with making the last two numbers 25- and 38 and go from there. I've measured some with much higher tip openings.
Chris
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2011-01-27 16:36
My M30 measures to 38, 24, 12+, 8 and 1.12 tip.
They're "supposed" to be 1.15, but it seems that they can range from 1.12-1.17 using the same gague.
At any rate, Very (what I consider to be very, anyway) open and quite long. The 13 series versions being very open, very long, very low baffle and moderately thick rails (side and tip).
That boils down to:
Large tip opening: Softer reed needed, slower response, more mellow and diffuse sound.
Long facing: allows for harder reed (than if it were shorter). Darkens and mellows the sound and may require more embouchure pressure to focus and clarify the sound.
Wide rails: A mellower sound with less flexibility and clarity, slower response. "Darker".
13 series: Lower baffle creating a deeper and darker sound as well as lowering the pitch.
People can argue a little over these factors, but these are generally the results. My personal experience is that the mouthpiece has a good "blow-through" due to the long facing and open internal dimensions. However, it loses some points with quickness of response (open tip, wide rails) and does not focus as well due to the above factors.
I agree with Chris that to copy what they consider to be a standard M30 would be closer to the lay of mine. 38, 24, 12, 7 would probably be close to what vandoren had in mind.
I played this mouthpiece for a year or so back in 2006. I played the 442 pitched model because it had more focus and clarity. I don't think this facing is at all ideal, but to each their own.
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Author: 2cekce ★2017
Date: 2011-01-28 00:15
I apparently didn't research before I bought this mp I was in the market for a new mp and the guy at the music store sold me this one. at the time I didnt know what sound I was looking for, now I know I want a dark sound
that is focused and easily responsive( especially with my slow and heavy tongue) in all registers Is it possible to get this m30 I have refaced to get the above
results or will I need to look into buying another? money not really a factor.
oh and what mp will give me the above if I had to get another?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-01-28 00:29
2cekce wrote:
> now I know I want a dark sound
> that is focused and easily responsive( especially with my slow
> and heavy tongue) in all registers
If you read the advertising, practically every mouthpiece on the market (and most of the clarinets) gives you this. The reality is that no mouthpiece or instrument will by itself give you these results. A lot of players use and like the M30. A lot of other players get the result you're looking for with other equipment.
Karl
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2011-02-04 04:08
2cekce:
If you want quicker and lighter articulation, then most of the people I've worked with on mouthpieces seem to have an easier time with thinner rails. You can see if there are M30's with thinner rails, or you can try some other facing. If you want to stay with a Vandoren, a 5RV or an M15 might be easier in this regard. I don't know what will produce a "dark focused sound" for you, but rail thickness (or thinness) usually has a large effect on responsiveness.
Chris
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Author: 2cekce ★2017
Date: 2011-02-04 12:27
Thanks for the info Chris, I have tried several mps of the m series and the 5rv and twice now the 5rv just didnt do it for me, I got better ease of blowing or less resistance out of the m series. I now have a m30 I dont use because I didnt know to see how it was pitched, and just recently got the m13 which again was favored over the m15 and 5rv when I tried them out.
I;m not working at the moment( a byproduct of downsizing) so when I get back to work I will take a few lessons from a private instructor here in atlanta as that may be the only way I will know for sure what I need to do
or may not need to do. my setup at the moment is amatipro 6 series with two barrels 62.5 and 64mm m13mp and mitchell laurie reeds 3.5 and still getting used to the ton kooiman tr which i needed as I was having issues with my thumb.
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