 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: autumnsilence
Date: 2008-09-02 06:31
I was looking around on the internet browsing for birthday ideas and i have seen the crystal mouthpieces and at first i thought they were kinda like those plastic colored clarinets that are lime green or whatever color, basically just something that looks snazzy but is not all that great compared to most stuff.. but i started reading discriptions of a few of them and the description seems pretty good and i have heard of a few people mentioning they had them on the board and i was just curious if they are good quality mouthpieces because i would like to buy one to try it out but i dont want to waste the money and effort if it isnt worth the time.. How is it compared to the Fobes Debut? thats the mouthpiece i have had my eye on.. ( i dont necessarily mean performance wise, i mean facing wise and how similar they are)..
any feedback would be great thanks.
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-09-02 07:05
The best-known maker of crystal mouthpieces is the Italian firm Pomarico. They make several different facings, which are named after precious stones.
"the Fobes Debut? thats the mouthpiece i have had my eye on" .... you shouldn't choose a mouthpiece by eye!
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-02 11:57
The Fobes Debut is a great mouthpiece for someone who is starting out. Crystal mouthpieces are not, generally speaking.
But only you (with your teacher's help) can make that determination...so order some on trial (which every store allows you to do) and start making decisions.
I'm in complete agreement with Norbert...you can't choose anything based on reading and looking at it.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-09-02 13:47
I've refaced literally dozens of Pomarico crystal mouthpieces of various sizes, and personally play regularly on three of them (Eb, Bb and bass clarinet sizes), and I can tell you what I've observed: They are well-made, with good interior design, but the facing curves are usually too short, and too 'humped', making them very resistant and stuffy. Fortunately, that can all be fixed, then as long as you don't drop them, they play well and last a long time with complete dimensional stability.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-09-02 14:20
"you shouldn't choose a mouthpiece by eye!"
In other words, mouthpieces should be chosen by how they play, not how they look. A crystal mouthpiece can be very good--or just as bad--as any hard rubber mouthpiece, you just need to pick the one that plays best for you. And that process may take many trials and can last.....(like many of us)...for years. The biggest disadvantage with a crystal mouthpiece--GRAVITY. If you drop it or even bump it against a hard surface, it will break. They are much more fragile than hard rubber models and therefore, usually not recommended for beginners who, typically, seem to have many more "broken" equipement issues than experianced players. Good luck.
Post Edited (2008-09-02 16:23)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-09-02 14:40
I have and play-on a number of glass mps, for soprano, alto and bass cls. A Search here will turn up much info of previous discussions, including the misnomer of crystal. Glass is an amorphous solid, with little, if any, crystalline structure. As in "crystal glass" table ware, its a better sounding name ! Yes, Pomarico of Italy is the major manufacturer, O'Brien was our US glass mp maker in the early-middle 1900's, and some may appear in auctions occasionally. My sop glasses are labelled O'B or Selmer. I became acquainted with Poms by buying 2 bass cl mps, which, with original facings were good, but refaced by D S, became GREAT. I contacted Riccardo at Pomarico re: an alto cl mp, bought one, a #3 facing which pleases me and another alto/bass cl player who wants mine !! I haven't dropped a glass mp for years now, am quite careful and clean them with vinegar. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2008-09-02 15:44
I use a crystal mp (Pomarico ) on my bass ( Buffet) clarinet.
pros:
I l o v e the sound of it, articulation, intonation very good, very hygienic material
cons:
-looks rather strange on a bass ( but people may like it)
-crystal bass mp is very heavy and (if not perfectly dry) a little bit slippery... so I always fear to drop it to the floor... this would be definitively the end of this nice mp...
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-09-02 18:19
I'm considering crystal for Eb and basset horn (that takes an alto mpc) as I already play crystals on Bb/A (Vandoren A1) and bass (Pomarico 3).
Seen some old Selmer and O'Brien crystals on the famous site, though I've never been around at the right time to take the plunge.
Anyone know what facing Gino Cioffi played on and what current Pomarico model is nearest?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-09-02 18:30
According to a former student of his, he was a double lip player and used a rather closed mouthpiece. Don't know the specific number. I'll try to email my friend who studied many years with him and see if I can learn additional info.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-09-02 18:41
Chris, both of my bass mps still bear the GG [GC?] etchings, and are 1 and 3, now refaced by DS. I have always presumed that they were made for him, prob. for resale to students, and not for his personal-pro use. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-09-02 19:13
I have two personal experiences with dropping crystal bass clarinet mouthpieces on the floor (same floor, in fact, though the incidents were years apart).
In the first incident, my oldest daughter was at that time a toddler, and was at the top of a staircase leading down to the basement where I did my mouthpiece work. The floor was bare concrete. She started falling down the stairs, and I was in the middle of refacing mouthpiece #1 so was holding it in my hand. I sacrificed the mouthpiece, dove for my daughter and and caught her. Daughter was unharmed, but mouthpiece #1 broke into a large number of tiny pieces as soon as it hit the hard floor.
A couple of years later, I was refacing a similar mouthpiece while standing on that same floor and dropped it (for no good reason this time). I watched in horror as it BOUNCED three or four times on the concrete floor and came to rest. I picked it up and there wasn't a mark on it, nor a crack, nothing!
I'm still playing that mouthpiece today, some ten years later.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-09-02 19:20
I have owned several O'briens. One was a Cioffi facing.. It wasn't very open and this particular one wasn't good for me.
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2008-09-02 23:15)
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Author: autumnsilence
Date: 2008-09-02 21:25
Since i am getting about 3200 bucks for Dividends (i love living in alaska! lol) i planned on getting a new instrument/mouthpieces so i think im getting both.. the Fobes Debut and the Pomarico one as well.. I am slightly worried about the fragility aspect but it comforts me to know that last year our band room got new carpet put in insted of the wood floors that had been there for years (apparently something about the echoing or something screws up your hearing way easier) so hopefully it wont be as likely to break if i drop it but after playing for 5 years im pretty good with not being clumsy with it (especially knowing its fragile and costs narly 100 bucks..)
One thing though, is that people mention that it is harder on the teeth, for obvious reasons of what its made out of and doesnt leave teeth marks the way some mouthpieces do but since i am a double lip player i dont have to worry about leaving teeth marks anyway, but someone also said it was quite slippery in some sense so would it make sense to get one of those 'teethpads' that keep you from biting on the mouthpiece to help it not slide around so much? its ususally not a problem with the mouthpieces i have had so far but from time to time the mouthpiece tends to slide around just a little since i dont really have my teeth holding it in place and obviously my lip isnt as strong as my teeth would be.. would it be a good idea or just a pointless effort?
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-02 21:46
Hey David, I think someone upstairs was cutting you some slack for making the right decision years ago!
Divine intervention saves mouthpiece! Boy I wonder what that one plays like?
James
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2008-09-02 21:47)
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2008-09-02 23:59
some things I have heard are that:
- they do hurt your teeth, so use a mouthpiece patch.
- are very inconsistent because of the material they are made out of... so try a lot of them
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Author: autumnsilence
Date: 2008-09-03 01:05
hmm.. does any one know of an online seller that will let me order a few of the Pomarico crystal ones and try them out and send back the ones i dont want? because im far away from a decent music shop and im sure im even farther away from one that would let me try out crystal moutpieces let alone have them.. and i would rather try them out first rather than spending the 90 or so bucks plus the almost 10 bucks shipping to alaska for just one and then have it end up that i dont like it or whatever.. i know that most places charge a fee for sterilization and for them letting you try them for a while and im fine with playing the extra to try it out..
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2008-09-03 01:14
lots of places have them...
weinermusic
muncywinds
wwbw
i'm sure there's more.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-09-03 01:20
Fred Weiner lets you order and try up to 6 mouthpieces at a time.
MOUTHPIECE TRIAL POLICY
A maximum of 6 mouthpieces may be ordered for a 30 day trial period.
The trial period begins with the date printed on the invoice.
Mouthpieces on trial are not backordered. Mouthpieces must be tried with mouthpiece cushion, tape on the beak and with a material ligature such as BG or Rovner. Make sure that the logo is covered with masking tape.
You will get a full refund minus a $3.00 handling charge and a $3.50 cleaning sterilizing charge per mouthpiece returned.
There is an additional $5.00 handling charge when no mouthpieces are purchased.
Only one mouthpiece trial per month.
Shipping charges are the responsibility of the customer and are not refundable for any reason.
You will be charged actual shipping & handling plus insurance.
http://www7.mailordercentral.com/frederichweinerinc/contactus.asp
...GBK
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-09-03 04:08
I always use mouthpiece patches on any type of mouthpiece, but ESPECIALLY on crystal and stainless steel (sax).
I can't imagine playing on a crystal mouthpiece without a patch --- it would feel horrible and be very slippery. I like the BG 'thin', clear patches (or the equivalent Charles Bay version).
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-09-03 04:31
I used to play a Pomarico crystal mouthpiece for years and also a few years on bass clarinet. I've tried many and they varied from great to possibly the worst mouthpiece I've ever tried.
My experience is similar to David's. I once had a crystal mouthpiece fall very gently, from a very low height, and the tip broke. But recently I forgot I put a crystal mouthpiece on my bed... I was lying on my bed and wanted to go some other place, accidenly kicking the mouthpiece very fast, barely seeing it fly and fall hard on the (non-padded) floor, hearing a loud noise. I checked the mouthpiece, and it was perfect, without even the slightest mark on it.
Disadvantages of crystal mouthpieces are that they can break, they are heavier, and at least for me, I realized I didn't really like the feel of the glass in my mouth compared with rubber/plastic.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-09-03 12:14
You certainly notice the weight of a crystal mouthpiece when you use it with a plastic clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-09-03 14:32
Chris -
At a workshop many years ago, Gino Cioffi said that his mouthpiece was "given to me by my poor dead father." He had copies made by GG for his students.
For me, crystal mouthpieces are a crap-shoot, since the interior is formed when the melted glass solidifies, and no two are the same. Again for me, every crystal piece I've tried has felt far more open and less resistant than the equivalent design in hard rubber. Again for me, they have less "ping" in the sound than hard rubber.
Alex Williams played one in the NBC Symphony. He told me he loved it, but had to be in top shape to play it since it took more effort to get the sound he wanted.
Cioffi absolutely played double lip. In fact, he learned to play with the reed on top and switched only because he couldn't get auditions unless he played the "usual" way.
There are several threads on crystal and Cioffi, and Sherman Friedland's site also has lots of material.
Another maker is Manfredo Cavallini. He has an English option for his site, but it's rather primitive.
http://www.clarinet.it/DEFAULT.asp?id=en
Ken Shaw
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Author: William
Date: 2008-09-03 15:16
I just received an email from my friend who studied with Gino and here is what she recalls:
"The mouthpiece Mr. Cioffi played on was crystal and had been used by his father before him. If I remember correctly, it dated back to 1903! I do not know any exact information about its facing or tip opening. What I do know is that it had a unique and wonderful sound when Mr.Cioffi played it, far more beautiful than any other mouthpiece I had ever played or heard. It was sheer ecstasy to listen to him play!"
As for "ping", I have an opposite opinion from that of Kens'. While teaching clarinet at the International Music Camp in 1969, fellow teacher, James Calvert--a fine clarinetist from the Indianapolis area--attributed his clean articulation and rich, ringing sound to his O'brien crystal mouthpiece. But he said you "have to find a good one" and I think he said it had to be a #7 facing. Unlike Ken, I've always felt that crystal had more "ping" or ring in the sound than hard rubber, but I agree (with Ken) that all the ones I have tried to play have been resistant and hard to play. But then, maybe I have not found the right one for me. (James wouldn't sell me his)
Post Edited (2008-09-03 17:11)
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Author: Michelle
Date: 2008-09-04 01:21
I play a crystal GG #1 on both soprano and bass clarinets. Love 'em... I do have a backup rubber mpc for each clarinet but wouldn't switch back unless I broke one (perish the thought!). I don't mind the extra weight - my bass has a peg and my soprano is full-boehm anyway. I must have a buff thumb! I use a clear mpc pad on each mouthpiece. I prefer a mpc patch on all mouthpieces, but use a thinner one on rubber mpc's and the thicker one on the crystals.
If you have the cash, I second the recommendation of trying several crystals to get an idea of what works for you.
Have fun!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-09-04 06:15
Some people mentioned 'ping' but what about 'pong'? I guess a Chinese mouthpiece would be best for both  Anyway, the conclusion is that crystal mouthpieces have more ping, and crystal mouthpieces have less ping. Everything's crystal clear
On any mouthpiece I like the same patches as Dave, the clear ones from BG. Yamaha patches are also good but I think slightly thicker (maybe, I don't remember exactly). Vandorens are also good, but I think BG are cheaper than the other two.
Post Edited (2008-09-04 06:24)
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Author: William
Date: 2008-09-04 14:19
"Ping & Png?" I think we should table that discussion.........
Personally, the material a mouthpiece is made out of is much less important to me than how it plays. Whatever you choose, try as many as possible before you buy. But always keep in mind that Daniel Bonade said that, in the end, you really must "go home and learn to play the mouthpiece you pick out" (out of the pile, blindfolded). Its' more about *you* than your *equipement*.
Post Edited (2008-09-04 21:01)
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2008-09-04 20:39
David Speigelthal,
How does one reface a crystal mouthpiece? What abrasive?
Just curious.
B.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-09-05 00:16
I use the same abrasives for crystal as for any other material; namely, wet-or-dry sandpapers (I prefer the 3M brand). With crystal one has to keep the sandpaper wet and rinse it off frequently, and it takes a lot longer than, say, hard rubber to perform a reface, as well as using up a lot more of the coarser grades of paper. I start with 220 grit, then progress to 400, 600, and 1000-1200 grit, and for the finishing touch use automotive polishing compound (the white paste stuff).
Refacing a crystal mouthpiece (or stainless steel sax mouthpiece) is physically hard work and takes a lot of time, but in both cases the results are worth the effort, I think.
Done right, the mouthpiece will play with "ping" (in the Northern hemisphere) or "pong" (south of the equator), the difference being, of course, due to Coriolis acceleration. Chapter 7 in your physics textbook, if I recall correctly.
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Author: ABerry
Date: 2008-09-05 01:55
Greetings,
It is my understanding the Pomarico GG mouthpieces were made for Efrain Guigui who was friends with the Pomarico brother living in Argentina. I think there were two brothers, one in Italy and the other in Argentina.
Allan
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Author: clarinet60
Date: 2008-09-05 15:57
I once played a concert with George Jones many years ago (he was a professor at Rutgers University and formerly principle clarinet with the Rochester Philharmonic) and he used a crystal mouthpiece. He had a wonderful warm, focused sound. I believe that he played on an O'Brien, but I could be mistaken.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-09-05 17:19
But did his sound have "ping", or "pong", or neither?
![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-09-05 17:43
Ping and Pong.....open facing=pong close facing=ping medium facing= pjklmng
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-09-05 17:54
So can the big instrument mouthpieces like bass clarinet or bari sax have ping in their sound, or pong? Or do they have ten... and nis...?
Now back to watching the US Open... though I'm wondering if anyone there is using a closed facing racket...
Post Edited (2008-09-05 17:54)
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